HomeMy WebLinkAbout1974-05-22 Special MinutesMay 22, 1974
7:30 P.M.
CALL TO ORDER
ROLL CALL OF
COUNCIL MEMBERS
MEETING DISCUSSION
TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL
SPECIAL MEETING
MINUTES
7/1.
Tukwila City Hall
Council Chambers
Mayor Todd called the Special Meeting of the Council to order. He
announced the purpose of the Meeting is to discuss the free Tukwila
bus and Revenue Sharing monies to fund it.
GARDNER, STERLING, TRAYNOR, DAVIS, JOHANSON. MOVED BY TRAYNOR,
SECONDED BY JOHANSON, THAT COUNCILMAN SAUL BE EXCUSED. CARRIED.
Councilman Traynor requested comments from the audience on the
proposal to fund the Metro bus in Tukwila for the period June 1,
1974 through May 31, 1975 with a portion of Federal Revenue Sharing
funds. Mayor Todd stated $36,000.00 of the funds will be appropri-
ated for bus service if the Council approves.
Mrs. Rena Holloway stated she has always felt a nominal charge for
bus fare should be charged and then she would support the bus. If
there is not a charge, then she definitely does not.
Mr. Lou Trudeau stated the bus is a waste of money regardless of
where it is coming from town, state or federal. He stated he
works around town and has seen the bus empty most of the time. He
stated he disagrees strongly with federal money being blown one way
or another and the bus is along the same lines. Renton is one case.
Mrs. Lillian Balk stated she has been riding the bus and talking to
the older people who have been enjoying the service. They feel it
gives them a little more independence to do their own shopping and
errands. It would be a disfavor to our older citizens to take it
away.
Mrs. Jennel Baldwin stated she had seen the bus partially empty
many times. She stated she and her family have ridden the bus a
few times and that she does not like the scheduling for the after-
noon. She would just as soon ride the bus and many others might
also if the scheduling were better. If we cannot have a full
service bus, then why not a mini -bus.
Mrs. Lutes stated she has been riding the bus ever since she found
out about it. She finds there are quite a few people on it, and
all were expressing a wish to keep the bus. One day last week,
there were 20 passengers on it all going to Southcenter for one
purpose or another. She stated she does not think 10¢ will hurt
anyone either. She stated the City must have this service because
driving is getting expensive. Some women have to wait for their
husbands to come home from work before they can shop. There are
about 400 signatures on petitions on file in favor of the bus.
Please don't forget those.
Mrs. Anna Bernhard stated she would like to see a scheduling change.
Saturday would be a good day to have the bus. The hours the bus
runs now are not right. Mayor Todd asked if Mrs. Bernhard could
suggest some better hours. Mrs. Bernhard stated her main point is
to have the bus on Saturday and later in the afternoon on weekdays,
perhaps from 2 to 6 P.M.
Mayor Todd stated with the funding projected to be available, we
have 35 hours of service per week. Presently, we are running the
bus only on weekdays. The hours of operation can be changed, how-
ever if we go to Saturday service, we would have to cut down week-
day service.
Mrs. Bernhard stated we may not have to operate the bus every day
during the week. She stated the senior citizens should not have to
pay a fare, but everyone else could pay a dime or a quarter.
COUNCILWOMAN HARRIS ARRIVED AT 7:38 P.M.
Mrs. Velma Lee stated the hours could be shorter in the winter and
longer in the summer to average to 35 hours.
Ms. Cheryl Torbenson stated she liked the service and wouldn't mind
paying for it, but she would like later hours in the day.
TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING
May 22, 1974
Page 2
MEETING DISCUSSION Cont.
7/3
Mrs. McLester stated she would like to see a poll of those who
really utilize the service. Are they young people, older people
or children? She stated she has never ridden the bus and has
never seen more than 3 or 4 people riding in it. Mayor Todd stated
we do not have that much detail in our ridership reports and would
have to conduct a survey.
Mrs. Lutes stated she has seen children riding the bus and does not
know how many of them are buying milk and bread for the family or
are riding for the fun of it. She stated she had talked to the bus
drivers and they stated some of the children are troublesome, but
the drivers have been able to handle it. Also the children would
be able to use the bus to get to the new park at the Central School.
Mrs. Jennel Baldwin stated there are people who ride the bus who
cannot drive or don't have the car at home. Parking at peak hours
at Southcenter is atrocious. She stated her daughter rides the bus
and has a one hour limit. Most parents expect their children to
behave themselves, but some of course do not behave. She stated
most children would probably get bored of riding the bus for the
fun of it.
Mrs. McLester stated she is not knocking the bus or questioning what
type of people are riding the bus. She stated she wants to know
who gets the best use of the bus. She stated she does not agree
with kids riding the bus without adult supervision.
Mrs. Baldwin stated she prefers to ride the bus for short errands
because it is difficult to find parking at Southcenter.
Mrs. Holloway stated the small charge for fare would eliminate the
problem of babysitting on the bus.
Mrs. Donna Charlton stated she agreed with Mrs. Holloway and stated
she would like to see the bus run earlier in the morning for the
people who work in the area or want to catch a connecting bus.
She stated she received calls at City Hall from citizens who are
for the bus transportation, especially from the senior citizens.
Councilman Johanson stated Donna's concern is for early morning
service while there are suggestions from others for late afternoon,
evenings and weekends. How can we provide this much service?
Mr. Al Pieper read a prepared statement, "I do not wish to speak
either for or against the bus. I only wish to give the Council a
point of view for your consideration.
According to the figures released at the Council meeting at which
the representative of the bus company gave his estimates on costs
and rides, it approximates $1.00 per ride or rides. We have no
figures or estimates as to how many riders are being babysat or are
out joy riding. Assuming that 50% of the rides are what I will call
unnecessary, this leaves the necessary rides at $2.00 each.
I took the liberty of calling Sea -Tac Taxi to compare fares. The
fare from the Airport to Southcenter is about $2.70, from the Tuk-
wila hill $1.20 and from the Canyon Estates Apartments to South
center $1.00. It would not take over $.20 worth of gas in a pri-
vate car. It would seem that if we consider the cost,the pollution
factor of a bus over a car, the scheduling, the fact that the buses
obstruct traffic, etc., that the bus system as it now exists is a
bitter pill for the already over burdened taxpayers.
Further, the number of rides there must be quite a few repeaters and
there must be quite a few people that live outside of Tukwila. That
leaves the number of bona fide Tukwila residents that ride the bus
at a small minority of the total population. It follows that an
expenditure of approximately $35,000.00 for a bus service to bene-
fit only a few of our total population is bad fiscal policy.
TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL MEETING
May 22, 1974
Page 3
MEETING DISCUSSION Cont.
The point of view that the bus system is funded from a federal grant
and costs us nothing is debatable because the federal government has
no funds of its own. The government's funds must come from us,
work their way up through the system then work their way back down
and for us to then spend that money on an unreliable bus system
leaves something to be desired.
In closing, I submit that there must be other ways to use revenue
sharing money that will benefit a larger number of citizens and I
suggest that if the Council does decide to fund the bus, then some-
thing be worked out to make the system so it serves more people."
Councilman Traynor asked Mr. Pieper how is the system unreliable.
Mr. Pieper stated the bus comes and goes in his neighborhood at all
hours without a schedule. He stated his sister -in -law lives just
outside the City limits, she walks a few blocks and catches the
bus to Southcenter. We are spending $2.00 per ride to use the sys-
tem. There must be better ways to spend the money; more people have
to have access to the results of the expenditure.
Mrs. Charlton stated if we had the early morning service and charge
a small fare, we would probably get a lot of people who work close
by taking the bus in the morning.
Mayor Todd stated the bus would have to run from 6:00 A.M. and on
and also be available in the late afternoon and evening hours to
come back. We have a limited amount of hours per day which causes
the break in the service.
Mrs. Torbenson stated if the hours were changed, more people would
use the bus for working transportation.
Mrs. Baldwin asked what the hours are now. Mayor Todd stated from
10:00 A.M. to 2:00 P.M. and from 6:00 P.M. to 9:00 P.M. Mrs.
Baldwin suggested the hours 6:00 to 9:00 A.M. and from 3:00 to 8:00
P.M. Mayor Todd stated the hours can always be adjusted.
Larry Coffman, Metro Transit, stated Saturday service can be pro-
vided if service is cut back on the weekdays. There are only so
many hours to distribute.
Mrs. Ann Crain stated she is in favor of the bus for her children
because it saves her trips in the car. Better scheduling would
make the service available to any citizen in the City. She stated
whether everyone takes advantage of it is irrelevent. Councilwoman
Davis asked Mrs. Crain if the service is reliable when her children
ride. Mrs. Crain replied yes, and stated her neighbor rides the
bus once a week because she has no other transportation available.
Mr. Don Myers stated it was his wife Mrs. Crain is referring to and
that she does use the bus to go to the doctor and catches the con-
necting routes to other places. It saves him from having to take a
day off.
Mrs. Robinson stated she rides the bus because she cannot drive.
She stated she can speak for an elderly lady whose only method of
getting around is the bus; the lady stated she would not mind paying
a fare and her friends have expressed the same feelings.
Mr. Pieper stated the City could furnish taxi fare for the elderly
citizens at less cost than the bus. He stated the bus routes cover
only about 10% of the City. All of our citizens do not have access.
The cost factor of each ride is so great and we do not know how
much more expensive it will get in the future. We need to take a
hard look at this.
Mrs. Crain asked the Council if it is true that the bus does not
cover all the City.
Mayor Todd stated the largest area the bus does not serve is in the
industrial area. The present routes cover as nearly as possible
the highest number of citizens.
TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL MEETING
May 22, 1974
Page 4
MEETING DISCUSSION Cont.
Mrs. Crain asked if a fare is charged, would this involve extra costs
to Metro for bookkeeping? Larry Coffman stated the bookkeeping is done
by Metro and we would send the City a statement deducting the amount of
fares and the City would be paying the difference between the bill and
fare receipts. We would include it in the contract agreement.
Mr. Trudeau asked Mr. Coffman if it would be profitable for Metro to
run a bus through the City at their expense. Larry Coffman stated this
has been discussed at several other meetings with the Council. Tukwila
is intended to have Metro service eventually but he could not give an
exact date. The service will be provided under the 1980 Plan but not
this year. He stated the bus service is not intended to be profit mak-
ing, that it is a necessity to make the communities function and is paid
for by all other cities in the County through taxes. Population density,
the characteristics of the community and community concern are included
in the criteria for providing service.
Mr. Trudeau asked Mr. Coffman if Metro is government backed or a private
concern. Larry Coffman stated the State Legislature created Metro Tran-
sit in 1958 as a government entity of King County. It was granted auth-
ority to tax in 1972. Metro Transit receives .3% sales tax revenue and
other State and Federal funds.
Mr. George Hill stated the bus is a necessity for the older citizens.
He stated he read in the paper that the quantity of half -cent sales tax
is an indicator of what Metro gets. Renton had $147,000 and Tukwila had
$146,000. Since the citizens here have expressed a desire to have the
bus service and did pledge $30,000 last year, would it be possible to
have that bus sooner. Why not go along with us and get more hours per
week for the bus. We could run the service from 7:00 to 10:00 A.M. and
from 2:00 to 10:00 P.M. weekdays and on Saturday, and Metro could pick
up the difference.
Larry Coffman stated Metro does not do business on the basis of sales
tax. The State law requires service be developed in the central city
and suburban areas. 45% of the taxes come from suburban areas and 55%
comes from Seattle. Service is 70% for the city and 30% for suburban
areas. We try to work toward a balance of service. The City of Tukwila
is unique in the County, and you do have good service from other areas
in the valley. We have not ignored Tukwila.
Mr. Hill stated the 18 20 passenger buses such as Boeing operates may
provide better service for our needs and at less expense. Mr. Coffman
stated the driver is 85% of the costs. Mr. Hill stated it seems every-
one would like to have more hours. Maybe we could have more if we all
bend a little. Larry Coffman stated there is no legal way to make a
concession based on sales tax to do more for you.
Mr. Ed Robinson stated he rides the Metro bus from Southcenter to Seattle
and it runs along Interurban Avenue without making a stop. Why not run
that bus up over the hill to pick up a few more passengers. Larry Coff-
man stated that would make quite a long ride for passengers coming from
Auburn, but we will take a look at it.
Mrs. McLester stated we run the bus for 35 hours, spend $35,000 and 85%
of that is for the driver; she would like to become a bus driver. She
stated she rides the Metro bus and believe in it. The gas shortage
should have made a believer of others. The bus service is great for the
older citizens. With the increase in sales tax revenue, have we added
a new route in Tukwila? Larry Coffman stated there is Route #145 from
Kent, #150 from Auburn and #240 between Renton and Burien. Mrs.
McLester stated perhaps we should investigate the possibility of a small-
er bus on the basis of need.
Mayor Todd stated it was his original proposal to purchase two 15- passen-
ger mini -vans, hire local drivers and provide complete service. This
was prevented by the fact that Metro has an exclusive franchise and Metro
advised us that a smaller bus was not viable. On several occasions since
that time, he has sent written suggestions to Metro that they investigate
the situation. We have justification for our local service. He stated
the University District and the Central Area have smaller buses. Mayor
TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL MEETING
May 22, 1974
Page 5
MEETING DISCUSSION Cont.
Todd read a letter from himself to Mr. Aubrey Davis dated February
14, 1974 and has not received a written reply, but several tele-
phone conversations have resulted. Larry Coffman stated his own
appearances at Tukwila meetings are a result of that letter.
Mr. A. G. Radford stated since the City of Tukwila is allowing the
development of apartments and businesses, we should furnish them
with bus service whether they use it or not. Does the bus actually
help Southcenter and the apartments? Mayor Todd stated every per-
son who rides the bus to spend a dollar at Southcenter would help
the City of Tukwila.
Mrs. Holloway stated she has been attending the Metro Transit meet-
ings since 1972 and was told at that time that a bus would be pro-
vided for Tukwila by 1974. Is this postponed until 1980? Larry
Coffman stated he did not recall the year 1974 being mentioned, but
we are not asking you to wait until 1980.
Mrs. Diane LaPine stated she does not drive so she uses the bus
several times a week. It saves her husband trips on his day off
and it saves gas. It is a real convenience.
Mr. Ed Robinson asked if Tukwila is setting a precedence in provid-
ing its own service. Mayor Todd stated Seattle pays for some of
its own service. Larry Coffman stated Tukwila is using a unique
shuttle bus concept.
Mr. Pieper stated in regard to Mrs. LaPine's statement that the bus
uses gas too and pollutes more than a single car. Mrs. LaPine
stated there have been from 5 to 12 passengers on the bus when she
rides it which would save the gas and pollution from that many
single cars.
Mrs. Jon Sterling asked, based on the number of people who ride the
bus, what would Metro charge today as a fare to ride the bus?
Larry Coffman stated if you wanted to charge a fare high enough to
break even, you would have to go pretty high. Mrs. Sterling stated
she is strongly in favor of the bus and would continue to ride it
with a charge. Larry Coffman stated a reasonable fare would be
just something to help defray the cost, but to offset the cost
would be over a dollar per fare. Mrs. Sterling stated if the bus
is that important to people, it might not hurt to ask. She stated
we should continue to run the bus through Tukwila keeping it within
the City and she would be willing to pay to keep it. The philoso-
phy is that the whole community supports the bus.
Mrs. Torbenson asked how much the fare is from Interurban Avenue to
Southcenter. Larry Coffman stated 20¢ plus 10¢ for each additional
zone traveled.
Mrs. Velma Lee stated the intent is not to make a profit, but to
provide a service. It is better for the children to be on the bus
than to be on the streets. And when the new Police Annex is ready,
it will discourage a lot of misbehaving on the bus. The bus will
stop right in front of it.
Mrs. McLester stated the Forward Thrust money should be used for
the greatest good for the citizens. What percentage of citizens is
this grant serving? If it is a small percentage, then I am
against providing the service. She stated she would like to see a
poll taken. Mayor Todd stated the January 1974 ridership report
showed 3,000 people rode the bus and that some of those are probably
repeaters. Larry Coffman stated the City's Planning Department is
able to help with the percentages of population in different areas
of the City.
Mrs. Crain asked how the charges figured in comparison to the City
of Tukwila and the Magic Carpet service in Seattle. Larry Coffman
stated that is another contract with another city with a quite
different concept.
TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL MEETING
May 22, 1974
Page 6
MEETING DISCUSSION Cont.
ADJOURNMENT
8:50 P.M.
7/7
Councilwoman Davis asked how many hours of service does the Magic
Carpet route provide. Larry Coffman stated 24 hours per day. He
added that the demand in downtown Seattle is quite different than
that in Tukwila. The Magic Carpet service is the replacement of
the old "dime shuttle" in Seattle.
Mrs. Baldwin stated if you were to investigate the best use of the
money, you would probably find now that a smaller percentage of peo-
ple use the bus. If the schedules were changed, you would have
greater use of the bus and better use of the funds.
Mr. Radford stated if the City of Seattle pays $64,000 for 24 hours
of service daily, we are getting took by Metro here in Tukwila.
Mrs. Lutes stated some apartment dwellers may not be aware the bus
service is available and would suggest the owners post bus sched-
ules. Mr. Coffman stated Metro would be glad to help out with
publicity. Mrs. Lutes stated information on the connecting routes
should also be included. Councilwoman Davis asked when Metro ran
out of the schedules. Larry Coffman stated he was not aware that
they had, but he would do something about it tomorrow. Mr. Ed
Robinson stated he published the schedules in the Tukwila News
Register. Mrs. Cheryl Torbenson agreed the apartment managers
should tell their new tenants about the bus service.
Councilman Gardner stated the City of Richland pays for half taxi
fare for transportation of the elderly. How is that working out?
Larry Coffman stated he was not familiar with Richland's transpor-
tation.
Mr. Ben Aliment stated one of his customers had asked for a bus
schedule, he called Metro and received several in the. mail.
Mr. Bill Moore stated he did not understand the idea of exclusive
franchise. Larry Coffman stated Metro is trying to acquire routes
as they go, but are not forcing any private firms out of business.
We are the recognized transit operator in King County. Many cities
are trying to get a system going such as ours because a combination
of many private local systems is a real headache. A system such
as Metro anticipates will provide coordinated service.
Mrs. Crain stated there are some people who drive down to Southcent-
er to ride the Metro buses, but are told that no parking for that
purpose is allowed. Is there some means to provide parking like
the lots in Burien? Mayor Todd stated Mr. By Sneva, Mr. Charles
Baker and Mr. Alsager have been conferring about this. The plan is
to provide a park- and -ride lot at private cost. Mrs. McLester
stated she rides the bus to downtown and parks her car behind the
Lewis E Clark Theatre. Mr. Aliment stated some cars park above the
lot at the Golf Course and he has no objection.
Councilman Traynor stated the
heard by the Council at other
Several written comments have
MOVED BY TRAYNOR, SECONDED BY
CARRIED.
2 )=2L/„ A _IL c
Frank Todd, Mayor
Ricked L. Geer, Deputy City Clerk
comments are about the same as those
such meetings as are the answers.
also been submitted.
JOHANSON, THAT THE MEETING ADJOURN.