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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1974-08-28 Special MinutesAugust 2$, 1974 7:30 P.M. SUBJECT ROLL CALL OF COUNCIL MEMBERS CALL TO ORDER OPEN FOR PUBLIC COMMENT Velma Lee Councilman Saul Ella Woyvodich Eleanor McLester Councilman Saul Ella Woyvodich 134 TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL Tukwila City Hall SPECIAL MEETING Council Chambers M I N U T E S Gambling in the City of Tukwila. GARDNER, STERLING, HARRIS, SAUL, JOHANSON. MOVED BY STERLING, SECONDED BY SAUL, THAT COUNCIL MEMBERS DAVIS AND TRAYNOR BE EXCUSED. CARRIED. Councilman Johanson, presiding officers, called the meeting to order and explained the purpose of the Special Meeting to discuss gambling. Councilman Johanson opened the meeting for public comment at 7:44 P.M. Mrs. Lee stated a few weeks ago, the Council presented voters' statistics on SJR 5. She felt she had not voted for the things we had discussed that night. She then read from the Voters Pamphlet issued by the State of Washington in 1972. She stated she had called Mr. Bayley's office and he said out of the first 110 inspections, 104 establishments were in violation of not notifying their customers that the winners had been taken. Every law enforcement agency has come out against this because it is impossible to enforce and control. It is not small business. It is antici- pated that gambling will gross $5 million in unincor- porated King County annually. It opens the door for graft and corruption. The establishments would legally clear 25% of that amount. One establishment is now grossing $20,000 per month. According to Mr. Jewett, there is no way this is going to pay for itself or for the law enforcement. In the days of tolerance, the graft of government and law enforcement started at the top and worked its way down and there was nothing the officers could do. Councilman Saul stated the new Police Chief in Seattle is being sought for any experience with gambling. Gambling is a real big problem. Mrs. Woyvodich, the Riverside Inn, asked if gambling is going to bring in corruption and if the City of Tukwila does not have it, do you think they are going to stay out of Tukwila when we are surrounded by gambling in other cities and the County? The crimes could still happen here. Mrs. McLester stated she grew up in Idaho where her father ran a large establishment when gambling was legal there. He had all types of games and devices and never had any problems, he was never raided nor never had any complaints. She stated she voted for SJR 5 because she knew whe was voting for everything. She stated she does not gamble herself, but she would like to have the City enjoy the revenue and does enjoy the entertainment that goes along with these establishments. She asked that we not make the mis- take of not allowing gambling in Tukwila. Councilman Saul stated SJR 5 does not mention one armed bandits. Mrs. Woyvodich stated it does say "other popular games." TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING August 2$, 1974 Page 2 Al Pieper Ella Woyvodich Ella Woyvodich Benny Woyvodich Velma Lee Councilwoman Harris Eleanor McLester Councilman Saul Benny Woyvodich Ed Robinson Benny Woyvodich Eleanor McLester Al Pieper Lou Hendrickson Mr. Pieper stated he would like to have someone from the Police Department answering if gambling is not going to cause problems in our society, then why in all the media every police department in the State has spoken out against gambling. Mrs. Woyvodich stated she had heard Chief Sheets state at a previous regular Council meeting that local gambling has never caused problems. Illegal gambling has always caused problems and always will because you will never stop a gambler from gambling. Mrs. Woyvodich stated the Gambling Commission has reported a 15 to 1 ratio of complaints on bingo as opposed to other forms of gambling. Mr. Woyvodich stated in the tolerance days, gambling was completely different than it is now. Now we have the way to control it. The people voted for gambling in general and for what they wanted. Mrs. Lee stated perhaps the wording on the ballot was misleading and there was a lot of publicity at that time which said something else. Bingo and raffles were specifically mentioned. Councilwoman Harris stated King County has referred their gambling ordinance to the voters on an advisory ballot on primary election date. There is an initiative effort going in the State to allow slot machines on the November general election ballot. Councilman Saul and Mr. Benny Woyvodich discussed the differences between bingo and other gambling for the non profit organizations and as a business stimulant. Mrs. McLester stated there is no difference between bingo and other gambling. Either it is morally up- right or it is not. She stated she would not play the punch boards, but would not object to someone else playing them. Councilman Saul stated he ran an ad in the Tukwila News Register to get the citizens' reactions to gambling Twenty -five people called and stated they would like to have bingo but would not like open gambling. At Tukwila Days, 20 more people approached me with the same response. On the basis of 45 then and 5 more tonight, he would take his stand on the issue. Mr. Woyvodich asked what the circulation of the Tukwila News Register is. Mr. Robinson replied 5,000. Mr. Woyvodich stated 45 out of 5,000 are poor odds. Mrs. McLester asked Councilman Saul if his views on gambling were known before he placed the ad in the paper. Councilman Saul replied yes. Mr. Pieper stated these are not poor odds. The fact that 100% of those responding all responded in the same way is to me pretty good odds. Mr. Hendrickson. Shortacres, stated the main point seems to be the enforcement problems. Montana, Idaho and Las Vegas have no enforcement problems. If enforcement is impossible, then how have these places managed to function. I think the problem is that the TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING August 2$, 1971 Page 3 Lou Hendrickson police do not like any more work of any kind, and this is definitely going to take more work. The police should not have any voice in this because it is not their area of expertise. We don't ask the Army if we are going to go to war. It should be up to the executive branch of the government and to the people themselves. They tried to outlaw alcohol and could not do it because every society has to have some kind of sedative, some way to get away from their problems. Gambling provides a release. Does anyone here think that gambling does not go on here because it is not legal? If we make it legal, those people running illegal games may be out of business and if we tax if, the government gets a share and we cut out the people who are ripping off the gambling patrons. He stated he thinks gambling should be legalized and does not see any reason to have this separation in types of gambling to be allowed or not allowed. Councilman Johanson Councilman Johanson stated he also lived in Idaho when gambling was legal and remembers one small town that was built around the gambling establishments. When the gambling was outlawed, the town did not die and it was never a bad place to go. He stated he does not gamble because he is not a good gambler. It is a moral issue and we must apply good rationale to it. We all must change our ideas a little bit because the State of Washington now has legal gambling. The City of Tukwila now has to make its decision. He stated his attitude is liberal. He does not care if someone else gambles, or drinks or whatever as long as he does not affect me or my City. The police enforcement problem is at the center of this discussion of gambling and he would like to remove it entirely from the en- forcement of the police. He stated he would like to set up a commission of citizens with the ability to issue licenses or approve the issuance of licenses and be the control factor, inspect or hire their own inspectors and this would be paid for out of the licensing system. He thought it could be made stiff enough that the businesses would enforce themselves. Councilwoman Harris Councilwoman Harris stated she felt gambling in King County should be uniform. It does not make sense to have it legal in one location and illegal in another location a few blocks apart. To what extent can we legislate otherpeople's morals? It is a burden upon legislators and do we have that right based on our own morals. To prevent gambling in Tukwila is not going to restrict its citizens from gambling because they will go elsewhere. We are all adults and free to exer- cise our freedom of choice according to our own evalu- ations of our own morals, and this applies to all areas. She felt the licensees will do a considerable amount of their own enforcement because they will have their liquor and business licenses at stake. There are stiff penalties of a fine and or imprisonment. In fact, we do not know at this time how much of a law enforcement problem there will be. We can determine that at a later date. The Gambling Commission had adopted very exacting rules. The City's ordinance, if gambling were passed, would include language that the books of these establishments would be open at any time for inspection. We would not have this type of control over illegal gambling. Councilman Saul Councilman Saul stated he disagreed. We are an individ- ual City and we have nothing in common. Why should we be overrun by the County and do exactly the same thing. TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING August 2$, 1974 Page 4 Councilman Sterling Councilman Johanson Benny Woyvodich Councilman Sterling Councilman Gardner Benny Woyvodich Velma Lee Al Pieper Councilman Johanson Al Pieper Phyllis Pesicka 337 Councilman Sterling stated it is discriminatory to allow one group one thing and not allow another group something else. Mr. Pieper brought up the point of is gambling a problem. It sure is and it always will be so we might just as well have something to say about it rather than close our eyes and allow any illegal activities to go on. He stated he would like to see the taxation larger and would like to know how the other cities feel about this. He would also like to see each city have its own special license with a high enough price to make someone think twice about losing it. If it can be proven that something crooked is going on, then the licensee should auto- matically lose his business license in the City. Councilman Johanson stated the City should follow the State's penalties at the city level. We may end up taxing gambling right out of the State. Mr. Woyvodich stated the Gambling Commission has stated maximum penalties which are felonies charges to the operator. It is not the gambling which causes the problems; it is the people that cause the problems. The penalties are against the operator only and not the individual. Councilman Sterling stated the costs should be suffi- cient enough to make it worthwhile for the City. If we are going to have gambling, and we should because there is no way we can stop it from coming our way, then at least make it worthwhile for the City as revenue. Councilman Gardner stated he believed he voted for lotteries when he voted for gambling. Tukwila is unique because we get our revenue from people out of town. Whatever we do here, we will be telling those 50,000 to $0,000 people who spend their money here what to do. Mr. Woyvodich stated about 99% of his business is rep- resented by out of town patrons. Mrs. Lee stated that there was an election on this issue and three laws have been passed by the State Legislature since that time. The people have told their representatives what they wanted to do, you are not telling the people what they can and cannot do. This is a very confusing issue. Is it going to make money or is it going to cost money. What is the interest of the average person in Tukwila? Mr. Pieper stated the fact that he does not smoke does not mean that he does not pay for it. Gambling is going to cost the citizens money whether or not they gamble. Councilman Johanson stated this applies to just about everything. It costs consumers money for shop- lifting, but we have not outlawed the stores. Mr. Pieper stated if we must legislate against gambling to control it. then we should. Mrs. Pesicka asked how many of the other Council Members received calls. She stated she did not really care about the gambling one way or the other as long as it is strictly regulated. TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING August 2$, 1974 Page 5 Councilman Sterling Councilman Saul Phyllis Pesicka Eleanor McLester Councilman Johanson Benny Woyvodich Velma Lee Councilman Johanson Velma Lee Councilwoman Harris Councilman Gardner Lou Hendrickson Phyllis Pesicka $3$ Councilman Sterling stated he doubted there would be much cost involved in extra Police officers. Our Department now checks these places where gambling is going on. He stated he is very pleased with our Police Department and doubts that there is not one officer over there that could not read and enforce these laws. Councilman Saul stated the Police Department would not agree with that. They want two more officers. Mrs. Pesicka stated we do have a great Police Depart- ment. The State laws are very explicit and it should not take many more officers because these establish- ments should regulate themselves. Mrs. McLester stated there are not very many businesses that could or would apply if gambling is allowed. Councilman Johanson stated no one knows for sure but he could not imagine more than 10 or 12 places. Mr. Woyvodich stated the Riverside Inn had received a Performance Award from the Liquor Board and he would like to thank the Police officers for their help in getting this award for the Riverside too. He stated the first two months he had gambling, he made no profit from it. Once the winners are gone, no one is going to keep playing that machine. Mrs. Lee stated Mr. Jewett had also stated there are 49 establishments in King County and $O% of them were in violation. You are going to need a lot of enforce- ment which means Policemen. Is gambling really going to pay? Councilman Johanson stated if there is nct good enforce- ment, then the gambling will not be allowed. He stated with his proposal, he thinks there will be good enforcement without the additional Police. Mrs. Lee stated she has always been for law enforce- ment. She stated her husband is a Police Officer. When all the law enforcement agencies and the Prose- cuting Attorney come out against gambling it stands to reason that the only people who can be for it will profit from it. Councilwoman Harris read from an article published in the Seattle P -I on May 26 entitled "Officials Views Differ on Card Rooms" by Virginia Burnside. A copy of this article is on file in the City Clerk's office. She then reviewed the voters statistics on SJR 5 which were also presented at an earlier Council meeting. She stated she personally felt the Council should draw up an ordinance allowing gambling and write in our own safeguards and regulations. If there is a viola- tion where an arrest is made, the licensee will be responsible to the City's penalties as well as the State's. Councilman Gardner stated our ordinance can only set up the tax and either ban or allow gambling. Mr. Hendrickson stated he thought the City could have any law as long as it is not superceded by the State law or as long as it is not a case of double jeopardy. Mrs. Pesicka stated a third class cities can only restrict gambling and tax it to the maximum if they wish. She suggested the Council talk to Police Chief Sheets to get his help on where the jurisdiction of this lies. TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING August 2$, 1974 Page 6 Councilman Sterling Councilman Johanson Elaine Johanson Phyllis Pesicka Velma Lee Councilman Harris Councilman Saul Phyllis Pesicka Velma Lee Ella Woyvodich Councilwoman Harris ADJOURNMENT 9 :17 P.M. Attest: LAL n 4444(A2.40 Presidin g 041—ter Reid Johanso Doris E. Phelps, Deputy i ty Clerk 839 Councilman Sterling recommended a work meeting of the Council of the Whole to draft an ordinance. Councilman Johanson stated we need to do something soon. He stated he felt it is vital to have this commission of citizens and that administration might appreciate not having the burden for regulation of gambling. Mrs. Johanson stated she hoped the City Council would be the body to appoint members to this commission. Mrs. Pesicka stated it would be fair to go through the voters registration list and select every tenth name. Mrs. Lee asked what would happen in Tukwila if the voters in King County vote down gambling. Councilwoman Harris stated if Tukwila allowed gambling it does not remove the licensee from the controls of the Washington State Gambling Commission. Councilman Saul stated he remembered the corruption and indictments for pay —offs in the City of Seattle Police Department a few years ago. Mrs. Pesicka stated that was different because that was a system operating under the tolerance policy. Mrs. Lee stated there is a lot of money involved with gambling and there is always the possibility of this happening again. Mrs. Woyvodich stated there is also a possibility of gambling or bingo in a church becoming corrupt -too. Councilwoman Harris stated the saying "Let the buyer beware" applies to this. MOVED BY STERLING, SECONDED BY SAUL, THAT THE SPECIAL MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL ADJOURN. CARRIED.