HomeMy WebLinkAbout1976-08-30 Committee of the Whole MinutesAugust 30, 1976
7:30 P.M.
CALL TO ORDER
ROLL CALL OF
COUNCIL MEMBERS
DISCUSSION
Fire Dept. proposal
on Social Security
MINUTES
GARDNER, MS. PESICKA, VAN DUSEN, MS. HARRIS.
CITY OF TUKWILA Tukwila City Hall
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING Council Chambers
MOVED BY HARRIS, SECONDED BY MS. PESICKA, THAT COUNCILMAN
VAN DUSEN ACT AS CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING
IN THE ABSENCE OF COUNCILMAN HILL. CARRIED.
Chairman Van Dusen called the Committee of the Whole Meeting to
order at 7:42 P.M.
Sam Ruljanich, Fire Fighter, and Councilman Harris said they had
been in contact with the Fire Chief of Fire District No. 1 and the
men in that Fire District are satisfied with the plan they have
chosen since withdrawing from Social Security. He said the
situation in Fire District No. 25 is different, some of the people
are already on Social Security whereas in Fire District No. 1 they
are not. Js.Pesicka asked if Councilman Harris or Mr.
Ruljanich had talked to anyone who had been on an alternate plan
for several years. Councilman Harris said they had not as the
whole program is rather new. Councilman Harris said in seeking
information she had contacted a man from Mercer Island, formerly with
New York Life and now an independent agent. He is setting up
alternate plans with other municipalities and private corporations.
She said they had talked about the cost and the suggestion was
that an actuarial survey be done on the individual so they can
formulate their advice on what it would mean looking into the future.
She said the rate the City would contribute to such a program is
unknown, whether it would be dollar for dollar or what is not known.
Mr. Ruljanich said the actuarial report has been done by Bellevue,
Kirkland, Mountlake Terrace, etc. and each person's case is
different. He said this does not affect the amount paid by the
individual or by the City, just the benefits they would receive.
In most of the cities the cost of the actuarial report has been
borne by the City. Chairman Van Dusen said he understood the
firemen, were waiting to vote on withdrawal from Social Security
until such a time as they would know to what extent the City
would participate in a similar program. Mr. Ruljanich said they
would not vote until they had this information, they were not trying
to add any cost to the City. Chairman Van Dusen said he would
like this matter to be in the negotiations. Mr. Ruljanich said the
Fire Fighters did not feel this should be tied to negotiation, it
is not related to that. Councilman Harris said House Bill 252
passed the Legislature authorizing a municipality to deduct an
amount to be used for similar purposes as Social Security. She
said an individual can put in a set amount from his pay check each
month then the City would match the amount. The City could put a
lid on the amount of money they would match. In some cases there is
an "open" month once a year when the individual can add to or
make smaller the amount deducted from his paycheck. She said
the firemen are not asking the amount contributed by the City to be
given to them directly. She said she asked Mr. Hard for a legal
opinion as to whether or not the City has a right to say they
would not participate in another plan if the firemen say they do not
want to participate in Social Security. His legal opinion is that
payments made by the City are a form of compensation which the City
must continue, they are a form of annuity, it is part of their
salary. Chairman Van Dusen said the lid could be the amount that
would be paid to Social Security if the firemen had remained in
that program, then the individual could put in what he wanted to as
his own contribution. Sam Ruljanich said the deferred plan would
let a fireman put in up to 100% of his pay check if he wished. He
said he was also interested in asking the City Attorney if the
city is obliged to contribute as much as Social Security would be.
Mayor Bauch said it was his understanding that if the individual
does not wish to participate then the City would not have to put
in any amount for that individual in another pension plan. Mr.
Ruljanich said the firemen did not have a pension proposal in mind
to ask the City to participate in. Councilman Harris said the
City Attorney had written a letter to the City Council that reflects
his legal opinion on the matter, if the firemen decide to withdraw
CITY OF TUKWILA COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING
August 30, 1976
Page 2
DISCUSSION Contd.
Fire Dept. proposal from Social Security. Mayor Bauch recommended that the letter
on Social Security from the City Attorney be reviewed by the City Council and then the
Contd. matter be on the agenda for the City Council Regular Meeting to be
held September 7. The City Attorney will be present at the meeting
and can answer any questions that may be asked. Sam Ruljanich
said he would like to have the City Attorney express his opinion
on the matter. He added the deferred pension plan had been the most
acceptable to the firemen; Councilman Pesicka said when she called
the City of Santa Maria to ask about their experience with the
deferred plan she was told the medical liability was not sufficient
and they had to take out additional medical coverage for the men.
Mayor Bauch said this is something the firemen will have to think
about as they will be voting for future firemen. Future firemen
will be kept from receiving Social Security as once there is a
withdrawal from Social Security you cannot get back on. Councilman
Harris said the Fire Department has the ultimate decision in their
hands, there is a motion to consider at the next City Council
meeting and she would like to have some type of alternate motion to
consider. Mayor Bauch said he felt it is an economic issue that
should be determined at the bargaining table. Sam Ruljanich said
the firemen are not asking for any more money than the City has
been paying for Social Security. Chairman Van Dusen said he
thought the best thing would be to get a legal opinion from the City
Attorney. Mr. Ruljanich said he had information from other areas
outlining the alternate plans they are using. He expressed the
opinion that the plan being used by the City of Bellevue is not
what the firemen want and it does not relate to their best interests.
He said if they decide to withdraw from Social Security it will be
because they have found something better and at the most it will cost
the City the same amount. Councilwoman Pesicka said there will be
increased cost to the City in bookkeeping, etc. Councilman Harris
said the City Council needs to talk about a definite figure that the
City will have to contribute. We might say we are going to
contribute to the amount the Social Security contribution would be;
if Social Security increases we could say we would not contribute
more. It could be tied at the 5.8% figure. She continued the
City Council has to formulate the degree of participation, then
an ordinance can be drawn up. Chairman Van Dusen said the City
Council would probably rather the firemen continue on Social
Security, but it is not their decision to make. Councilman Harris
said it is the amount of money the City would have to contribute
that is of prime consideration.
ADJOURNMENT
9:30 P.M.
MOVED BY MS. PESICKA, SECONDED BY GARDNER, THAT THE SOCIAL SECURITY
DISCUSSION BE ON THE AGENDA FOR THE CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING
TO BE HELD SEPTEMBER 7, 1976. CARRIED.
Discussion continued with Councilman Harris saying the firemen can
vote as to whether or not they want to go ahead with Social Security
or withdraw from it. Mayor Bauch said he thought the City should
have the selection of what alternate plan the firemen accept if they
withdraw from Social Security. The alternate plan would have to be
a contract between the City and the insurance company. Mr.
Ruljanich said it was his concern to get the vote taken as the fire-
men are not covered by Social Security at present nor by any other
plan.
MOVED BY MS. PESICKA, SECONDED BY GARDNER, THAT THE COMMITTEE OF
THE WHOLE MEETING ADJOURN. CARRIED.
Norm'- Booher, Recording Secretary