HomeMy WebLinkAbout1977-05-25 Committee of the Whole MinutesMay 25, 1977
7:00 P.M.
CALL TO ORDER
ROLL CALL OF
COUNCIL MEMBERS
DISCUSSION
Comprehensive Land
Use Plan Tukwila
Hill bounded on
west by Interstate
5, on the south by
Interstate 405,
north and east by
Interurban Ave.
(Area 3)
TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING
M I N U T E S
TRAYNOR, HILL, MRS. PESICKA, VAN DUSEN.
s/
City Hall
Council Chamber:
Council President Hill called the Committee of the Whole Meeting to
order.
Council President Hill said the area to be discussed at this time would
be divided into three sections. The first section of the area would be
up to 151st Street from I -405 north to 151st Street bounded on the east
by Interurban and on the west by I -5.
Councilman Traynor said the Council had discussed the ratio of apart-
ments and it is out of balance, but Tukwila does not have room for more
and more apartments. He said if the Council keeps zoning for apartments
we might as well take the whole hill and let everything go helter
skelter. He continued there is nothing that says homes cannot be built
on this hill and that is what the Council would like to see. He said
he thought the use of the land for apartments is gone. There are
enough apartments, the use of the land for apartments is gone. There
are eight new homes up here on the hill Council President Hill said.
On the comprehensive land use map it indicates there will be no more
apartments built. When the original plan was made up the City felt the
property on the south and on the east was more suitable for multiple
homes than for single family dwellings. They were trying to cut it off
at the crest that ran around the hill. We must have a balance and find
out what that balance is. Councilman Pesicka said she believed the area
should be 63rd Street. There are single family dwellings on that street
and it is shown brown on the map. Mr. Ted Hackett, 2252 West Viewmont
Way, Seattle, said he represented one of the investors in Tukwila
Associates who own land in the area being discussed. He said there are
fifteen investors in the group and they bought the property fifteen yearE
ago. About one -third of the group are retired. He said they are inter-
ested in the comprehensive map the City is putting together and how it
might affect what they would like to do with the property they own.
He said they would like to put in condominiums at the upper level and
apartments at the other end. He showed sketches of the plan for their
development. He said this would fit the contour of the property. He
said he could appreciate that everyone would like to see everyone else
living in single family houses; however, you do not find that sort of
thing elsewhere in the world. The average house now is $53,000 and not
many people can afford that price. They will be forced into condomin-
iums or apartments. If it is not in this area it will be in another
area. Mr. Robert W. Thorpe, 2534 Burnett Court South, Renton, said he
was a community planner and he would like to present the plans of
Tukwila Associates and add to what Mr. Hackett had said. He said build-
ings that go into the lower part of the hill will have to think about
the noise. Noise is not as apparent in apartments as in residences
because people are not out -of -doors as much. There is sufficient
access for police and fire in the development they have planned, he said.
If homes are put in they would be in the $85,000 to $100,000 class,
with utilities, and these prices are unrealistic for most people. He
said if it is trees the Council wants to save, their plan has provided
for this type of landscaping. He said he felt there is a market for
more expensive apartments and condominiums, and he wanted to work with
the City and develop the kind of a development that would fit in and
enhance the area. He continued if the City annexes they will come
into balance. There are people who would say the City has too much
commercial with Southcenter. If you begin to look at the proportion likE
that why don't you roll back in commercial? He said basically what they
are talking about is owner occupied condominiums. Councilman Traynor
said he was told in a letter that it is not economics, it is the people
who should determine what they want. He said he did not agree with the
philosphy that economics should control, and if that is the case we might
as well bring in a bulldozer and start to work. Mr. Thorpe said he did
not like some of the things that have occurred here, there_are cuts put
in the hillside, he thought it was wrong to do it that way. There are
ways of building that are related to what the Council wants. There are
TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING
May 25, 1977
Page 2
DISCUSSION Contd.
Section 1
151st St. from
I -405 north to
151st St. bounded
on the east by
Interurban and
on the west by
I -5 Contd.
a lot of abuses to the land here. For a long time the City did not
have a planning department. He said his firm would like to work with
City to get what is good for the City. He said he agreed that the
people should say what they want, but economics is a factor. Councilman
Traynor said the Council would have a difficult time if they continue
to make a mess out of the hill. No one wants to come into the City
because they feel the Council will take the land and make it into
apartments. Councilman Pesicka said the Comprehensive Plan is the
plan the City would like to take for future development, it is not
necessarily how it is now. Mr. Thorpe said it was the plan of his
group to leave in large areas of green to fit in with the area. Council•
man Van Dusen said what Mr. Hackett and Mr. Thorpe had said was true.
We are in a situation where single family houses are hard to come by.
The problem is going to continue and we have a problem here. If you
look at the homes being built now they are not of the same quality
of a few years ago. They are built cheaply and they are expensive.
Council President Hill said he felt the comprehensive land use map is
an idea of a group of people plus the City Council and they have spent
quite a few hours on this idea of how the City should be. The existing
zones were put in 10 -12 years ago. He added if foresight was as good
as hindsight he could see where a lot of mistakes were made. The
City Council at that time felt it was right so they rezoned it. Later
it proved not to be a good idea. The map does not continue the present
zoning, it still has to go through the Planning Commission and the
City Council. The map tells what is the highest that the property can
be used for. It can be used for anything lower. The City Council at
the present time feels what the best and highest use is. He said they
walked over the property being considered this evening and it is pretty
noisy but when you get back in the trees it quiets down. He said
we have apartments here and apartments there and let's not put in
pockets. The City should use natural buffers. Wynn Anderson, audience,
said the R -3 zoning goes a little behind 153rd Street. He said he
thought the feeling of the people in that area was that they opposed
apartments. They have come in around them anyway, but they are opposed
to them. He said it was established as an R -1 zone before any zoning
was done in the City. Councilman Pesicka said the Council had talked
about office designations and she wondered if that would be a better
designation than housing on 154th Street. Councilman Traynor said if
you dig back far enough you will see opposition to the San Juan apart-
ments and Canyon Estates but it passed. Councilman Pesicka said she sym-
pathized with the fact that a lot of young people were going to have to
go to apartments, but it did not have to be in Tukwila. Fred Satterstron
Planning, said he hoped the office designation does not get passed over.
He said his office had prepared a definition of the term. Wynn
Anderson, audience, said he thought people were generally opposed to
rezoning when there is already zoned property available.
MOVED BY PESICKA, SECONDED BY TRAYNOR, THAT THE AREA NEAR END OF SIDE OF
62ND AVENUE WEST DOWN TO THE NORTH BOUNDARY OF THE SAN JUAN APARTMENTS
AND BOUNDED ON THE NORTH BY 151ST, ON THE EAST BY 65TH AVENUE AND ON THE
SOUTH BY 153RD TO THE EASTERN BOUNDARY OF THE SAN JUAN APARTMENTS BE
CHANGED TO YELLOW (LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL). CARRIED.
Councilman Saul arrived at the Meeting at 8:05 P.M.
Mayor Bauch said there are some new people in the audience and he felt
we should make it clear that this is a committee meeting and final actior
is not being taken at this time. The purpose of the meeting is to get
a consensus so when the regular Council meeting is held where final
action can be taken the discussion will be minor at that time.
Council President Hill said Fred Satterstrom, Planning, would give the
definition of office designation. Fred Satterstrom said the office
classification for the Comprehensive Land Use Plan Map was "An area
characterized primarily by professional and commercial office uses with
certain complementary retail uses." He continued that Staff had proposed
the designation to the Planning Commission, the Planning Commission felt
it was too restrictive. The particular area in mind was along Strander
Boulevard that area is now mostly high density residential according
TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING
May 25, 1977
Page 3
DISCUSSION Contd.
Sec. 1 151st St.
from I -405 no. to
151st St. bounded
on the east by
Interurban on the
west by I -5
contd.
Y53
to current zoning. He said they did not want a lot of traffic along
Southcenter Boulevard. He said professional offices will be spurred
by the building of City Hall. Councilman Pesicka asked about the
possibility of Southcenter Boulevard being a four lane street. Fred
Satterstrom said it has been proposed. Mayor Bauch said the current
four year plan shows the four lane street from the west to the City
Hall, the City is doing the design work at the present time. Councilman
Saul asked if there would be restaurants in that area. Fred Satterstrom
said it would depend. The City of Kent does not allow any retail office
in their professional zone. There would be no drive -ins or cocktail
lounges, it would be places one could go to for lunch. Councilman
Saul said when the Council was going to make this office designation
he thought of the McCann property and he thought it would allow rest-
aurants. Fred Satterstrom said the Council would have to define office,
they would have to decide what type of uses they want. Council Presi-
dent Hill asked if this would be like all of the rest of the zoning
if you have the office designation will it fall above RMH? Fred
Satterstrom said it is rather a question would the City be interested
in maintaining the cascading zone concept. Some other cities have that
type of cascading and others do not. The City of Kent has established
different use areas and only similar or suitable types of use will be
allowed in the office and retail zones. It would depend on whether or
not the City kept the cascading idea of zoning. Councilman Pesicka
said she supported this office designation. Councilman Saul said there
are certain areas he would like to see it in. Councilman Traynor said
you will have to be very careful what you do with this classification.
Councilman Saul said offices are usually built with a good appearance.
MOVED BY PESICKA, SECONDED BY SAUL, THAT ALL OF THE PROPERTY ABUTTING
154TH BETWEEN "S" LINE BRIDGE AND "T" LINE BRIDGE BACK TO THE END OF
THE FIRST LOT EVEN WITH THE CITY HALL AND THE COUNTY HOUSING BUILDING
BE DESIGNATED AS OFFICE.
Frank Todd, audience, said he questioned the clarity of the motion. The
reason being that he owned property in the area. Council President Hill
said it is right up to Mr. Todd's property. He said the Council would
have to have a clear cut definition of office. Fred Satterstrom said
none of the definitions the Council is getting on the comprehensive
plan area as definite as they would like they are not definite land
uses. Councilman Traynor said the Council will need clear cut defini-
tions when they get to zoning.
*CARRIED, WITH HILL VOTING NO.
MOVED BY SAUL, SECONDED BY VAN DUSEN, THAT SECTION 1 OF AREA 3 BE
SUBMITTED TO THE PUBLIC HEARING AS AMENDED.
Mr. Dick Goe, audience, said he was interested in the City as a resident
and a home owner. He said he agreed with Councilman Van Dusen that
prices are going up. The 10% wage hike will be the standard for the
next ten years. He said we have 60% of our population as apartment
dwellers we have 60% of our population who are fairly nonparticipant
in our community. As a home owner he would like to speak up and say
he would like to maintain as much single family dwelling in this
community as possible. Mr. Hackett, Tukwila Associates, said he
wondered if condominium owners were classified as home owners they are
not transient. Mr. Thorpe, Tukwila Associates, said a lot of the cost
in a home is roads, etc. In a condominium unit each person buys a unit
and participates in the operating expense. Dennis Robertson, audience,
said he would like to state if the City annexes all of the area they
have talked about and if it is going to be zoned for apartments the
people will not want to be annexed. Another thing is the noise
argument. In a residential area a home has a yard and it would be
quieter inside. High density creates problems. He said he is concerned
about what is happening here and in the whole area. Dick Goe, audience,
said a survey of people living in condominiums showed they are not
always bought by people wanting to live in them, but by people wanting
to invest their money. Councilman Traynor said we get developers and
investors in here telling us how great it would be for us to have
apartments, etc., but they live themselves where the apartments
are not permitted.
*CARRIED, WITH TRAYNOR VOTING NO.
TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING
May 25, 1977
Page 4
RECESS
8:55 P.M. -9:05 P.M.
Sec. 2 From
151st St. to
144th St. from
west City limits
to Interurban
Sec. 3 Land
no. of 144th
west of Interurban
east of western
City limits
ADJOURNMENT
9:50 P.M.
MOVED BY HILL, SECONDED BY PESICKA, THAT THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
MEETING RECESS FOR 10 MINUTES. CARRIED.
The Committee of the Whole Meeting was called back to order by Council
President Hill with all Council Members present as previously listed.
Council President Hill said the next section to be considered would be
from 151st to 144th and from west City limits to Interurban. Councilman
Traynor said since this is the way Council would like the City to look,
he felt all of the brown area within the guide lines being considered
should be yellow (low density residential). This is not a zoning map,
it is a comprehensive plan. He said he felt a lot of the citizens of
this City would like to see homes there rather than apartments.
MOVED BY TRAYNOR, SECONDED BY SAUL, THAT ALL OF THE AREA FROM 151ST TO
144TH FROM THE TOP OF THE SLOPE ON INTERURBAN WEST TO WESTERN CITY
LIMITS IN A STRAIGHT LINE HAVE ALL OF THE BROWN AREA CHANGED TO YELLOW
(LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL). CARRIED.
MOVED BY SAUL, SECONDED BY TRAYNOR, THAT SECTION 2 OF AREA 3 BE
PRESENTED TO THE PUBLIC HEARING ON JUNE 13, 1977 AS AMENDED. CARRIED.
Council President Hill said Section 3 of Area 3 would be all of the land
north of 144th and west of Interurban and east of the western City
limits. Councilman Traynor said if the City takes over Interurban from
the State it would slow the traffic down on that street. It would be
a good spot for apartments.
MOVED BY TRAYNOR, SECONDED BY SAUL, THAT THE LIGHT BROWN AREA IN SECTION
3 OF AREA 3 BE DELETED AND SHOWN AS YELLOW (LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL).
Mr. Merkel, audience, asked if this would take away the zoning from
the area referred to in the motion. Council President Hill said this
does not zone anything it is a plan of how the Council would like the
area to be. Mrs. Merkel, audience, asked the Council if they looked
at the slope in that area when they inspected the area being discussed
at this meeting. She said there is no way anyone could build a house
on this particular piece of property. It is mostly under the brow of
the hill. She said she did not think it should be taken from medium
density and made into low density residential. Fred Satterstrom
explained if that particular area is changed to low density residential
the apartments could be maintained as they are, but they could not
be expanded. They could not be rebuilt if they burned or were damaged.
Council President Hill asked if this would affect the selling price
if it were sold. Mr. Satterstrom said he did not know. Mr. Merkel said
there is plenty of parking at his apartments. They own one -half acre
in the back. That land will be worthless if it is rezoned. If you
take the land use away from it they could not get their money back on it
it is unfair, he said. Joe Barnes, audience, said he thought in a
situation like this where a piece of property has built up that it
would be unfair for the owner to lose his investment.
*MOTION FAILED, WITH TRAYNOR AND SAUL VOTING YES.
Councilman Traynor said his intent was not to hurt anyone. His intent
is to make the City look good and be a pleasant place to live. He
said past City Councils have said this is really how you want it, but
the people living here opposed this building of apartments, but the
City Council let them build them. You cannot please everyone all of
the time. Council President Hill said there is a little strip of red
along Interurban that has not been discussed. Council President Hill
said the property value on four or five homes along there would be
devalued if that is left red.
MOVED BY SAUL, SECONDED BY VAN DUSEN, THAT SECTION 3 OF AREA 3 BE ACCEP-
TED AS PROPOSED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION. CARRIED, WITH SAUL AND
TRAYNOR VOTING NO.
MOVED BY SAUL, SECONDED BY MRS. PESICKA, THAT THE COMMITTEE OF THE
WHOLE MEETING ADJOURN. CARRIED.
Norma- Booher, Recording Secretary