HomeMy WebLinkAbout1977-06-01 Committee of the Whole MinutesJune 1, 1977 Tukwila City Council
7:00 P.M. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING
CALL TO ORDER
ROLL CALL OF GARDNER, TRAYNOR, HILL, SAUL, PESICKA, VAN DUSEN, BOHRER.
COUNCIL MEMBERS
DISCUSSION
Land within
City limits
west of I -5
to west City
limits
(McMicken
Heights)
M I N U T E S
//SS
Tukwila Elementary School
Multi- Purpose Room
Council President Hill called the Committee of the Whole Meeting to order
at 7:12 P.M.
Council President Hill stated Fred Satterstrom, Associate Planner, would
explain the area to be discussed. Mr. Satterstrom said the area to be
discussed would be that area which lies within the Tukwila City limits in
McMicken Heights as well as a portion which is not located in McMicken
Heights but is west of I -5 north of I -518 within the City limits and
basically that area at the intersection of 154th and Southcenter Boulevard.
This is the only area that will be considered in this meeting. Council
President Hill announced this is not a zoning hearing, it is a comprehensive
plan of what the citizens feel is the highest and best use for property
under discussion. Any property that is presently zoned will not be changed
this evening. The changing of zones is an entirely different procedure.
Tonight we will determine what the people who live in that area want their
property used for.
Mr. Richard Wilson, 403 Columbia Street, Seattle, stated he was an attorney
representing a group who owned property in the area to be discussed. He
said he was speaking in favor of the existing comprehensive plan designa-
tions. He said the City Council is faced with determining what the future
of Tukwila will be it is one of the most important functions that the
City Council can undertake. On the basis of that plan all of the future
of the City lies. He said his clients have different views from some
of the people here tonight but we do share a desire to do the best for the
City. He said they are not asking a new use for the property, that property
is presently zoned multi- density. It is zoned RMH. It allows the develop-
ment of multiple high density residences. He continued his clients were
not trying to change a neighborhood. Some of the handbills that he had
seen distributed stated his clients were trying to put in 50 acres of apart-
ments. He said his clients own 15 acres toward the north end of McMicken
Heights some 4 acres have been given over to right -of -ways, more for
green areas, leaving only three or four acres of total development space.
He said his clients were concerned about the appearance of the area.
He said there are a lot of apartment eye sores on Tukwila Hill. They do not
want to see their area turned into a Tukwila hill. The situation is not
the same. This piece of property can be used as a buffer between freeway
and the residences. They want to see a different kind of development,
they want a natural setting. They feel multi residence is right for this
area. The Planning Commission reviewed the proposed use of the property.
Multi- family houses on that site can be attractive, useful, and fit in
with the area. Mr. Wilson showed sketches of the proposed development,
calling attention to the green areas and trees, and indicating that many
of the apartments can be located below the crest of the hill. Many of the
apartments will not be in sight. The plan called for a 30 foot green
belt on most sides of the development comprised of the existing trees.
They will be preserved as an open space and buffer. Another aspect of
this is that the density of the proposed development is not 50 acres of
apartments, this is a project that averages 13.5 units per acre. In
Tukwila the average is 28 per acres. There is good access to many well
travelled streets. Klickitat Drive is two blocks away. There is heavy
traffic there now. He said the zoning code calls for 12 parking spaces
and they have provided for 1.72 spaces in their development. If this pro-
perty is developed as single family residences there would be about 35
single family lots. Family owners have more cars than apartment dwellers.
There would be more cars if the area is put into homes. According to
Professor Breysse, who talked to the Council about noise, noise travels
and goes up. The noise range in this area is 52 to 65 dbs. Professor
Breysse said noise is detrimental to one's health. If this property is
developed as single family we run the risk of putting people in homes that
have high noise levels. Financing such homes is difficult. More money
can be spent on apartments to combat noise. Professor Breysse said apart-
ments are better for noise areas. In addition, this multi- family development
could have a very positive impact on the family residences as it would
buffer the noise to the homes. The apartments will cut down considerably
on the noise from the freeway. Single family units would not have the same
effect. Apartments are needed in the south end of Seattle. Costs are
TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING
June 1, 1977
Page 2
DISCUSSION Contd.
Land within sky rocketing and people are not going to be able to pay the price for
City limits single family residences. The position of the people in the McMicken
west of I -5 Heights area is the fact that they have what they want and they want it to
to west City remain just as it is. The people are ignoring the rights of other people
limits in this area to have a choice of housing needs. There are those who feel
(McMicken there are too many apartments in Tukwila. Apartments are not taking over
Heights) the City. Through annexation the City will be able to balance the single
Contd. family housing. It is the economics of the property owners that have to
be considered. Only 35 lots could be developed out of this area. The lots
would bring about $7,500 each, extra streets, sidewalks, sewers, etc. would
have to be put in. He said his clients are not interested in putting in
cracker boxes. They want attractive houses. If it is zoned single family
it will take away the profit that they will be able to get for the property.
It will not be the case of ruining the neighborhood. The zoning at present
is multi family and we would like the City to keep that zoning. When
Southcenter was planned this area was shown as multi family. We want the
Council to impose and preserve the high density residential that it now has.
It is more appropriate now. We do not want to bend the landscape to our
will, our project will enhance the area.
Council President Hill said the purpose of this meeting is not to change
the zoning. The zoning will stay as it is. Mr. Wilson said the zoning
will follow the comprehensive plan.
Mr Jack Bryant, architect, 134 -C S. W. 153rd Street, Seattle, stated he
had been an architect for almost 30 years. When he heard recently that some
property had been downgraded in zoning he was amazed. Prior to that time
he had done some architectual work for his clients who have about 42 acres
of property within the area being discussed tonight. There are 130 units
of apartments planned and it was held up because the timing was not quite
right. Now the need is here. He said he agreed with everything the former
speaker had said, but one point he did not hear was on the energy problem.
This is extremely serious and the trend in the future will be for people to
live closer to their work. Apartments are the natural result of this trend.
This area is between the Southcenter development which is high density and
the airport development. If people can live close to these areas where they
work it will be patriotic. He showed sketches of his planned development.
He said their proposed use of the property is about 1/3 of the density
allowed by the zoning. There has been a great deal of effort and expense
up to this point for his clients to develop according to the present zoning
and he felt they should be allowed to keep that zoning.
Council President Hill again said there is no change in the zoning. He
said a lot of this property has been zoned since 1962 and we cannot change
the zoning, there would have to be an ordinance passed to change zoning.
The purpose of this meeting is to get an opinion of the people as to what
they want the property where they live used for. There will be no zoning
changes unless it is done at a Public Hearing.
Fred Satterstrom, Associate Planner, said he would like to explain what
the Council is considering this evening. The maps that were distributed
were the comprehensive land use map that was considered by the Planning
Commission. The Planning Commission made some changes. The area in yellow
is low density residential. It was the Planning Commission recommendation
that it be medium density residential where it had formerly been high
density. Referring to the map on the wall, the part in orange is
medium density. The area shown in yellow has been proposed by the Planning
Commission as single family residential. The City staff has proposed a
revision to what the Planning Commission had recommended. Staff has rolled
it back a bit by maintaining the medium density in the part colored orange.
The Council is considering these recommendations as well as the existing
comprehensive plan as well as any other information that can be introduced.
Eleanor McLester, 5118 So. 164th, Tukwila, said she would like to speak
against medium and high density residential in McMicken Heights. She said
at the time the new comprehensive plan for the City was being considered
by a citizen's committee there was no consideration for medium or high
density in McMicken Heights. She said where she lives on 164th, close
to the freeway, she does not need a buffer because she feels that her
TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING
June 1, 1977
Page 3
DISCUSSION Contd.
/mss 7
McMicken neighborhood should remain a residential neighborhood of single family
Heights residences. Any time you introduce into a total residential area an
Contd. apartment you get transient people who come and go. Where you have
transients, you have a higher rate of burglaries and crime. She said she
was against changing any of the recommendations that were made to the
Planning Commission. She would like to have the area low density residen-
tial as it is shown on the Comprehensive Land Use Map.
Dennis Robertson, 16038 48th Avenue South, Tukwila, said he would like to
deliver a petition of 347 home owners asking that the McMicken Heights area
remain single family residential. He said he would like to establish
what we think the Council should be doing and what legal rights they have.
There is a court case pending right now as to the rights of the City
Council. The Washington State Supreme Court has supported the rights of
the Council to consider the opinions of the people. Planning neighborhoods
is more important than planning roads. We are talking about planning what
an area should look like. There are 50 acres of undeveloped lands in the
area being discussed. Once apartments come in the single family residence
ceases, once it starts we will see a lot of apartments come in. The City
has experienced developer's promises.
Mrs. Edwina Evans, 4544 South 163rd Place, Tukwila, said when she moved
to the area Southcenter was not developed. Her family moved there because
it was what they wanted for their family. She said now they are being
encrouched from the west by commerce moving up from Highway 99. Business
is moving up the hill and the residents are being squeezed and they do not
like it, it is not what they want. She said they want to maintain their
area for the reasons they bought, their desires have not changed.
Mr. John L. Orinda, 15814 58th Avenue South, Tukwila, said he moved here
when there were dairies and cows in the back yard. Southcenter came in
and around us. They moved here to have peace and quiet now we have the
freeways. He said we have had RMH in our area and he would like it to
remain. He said Professor Breysse talked about sound. He said he worked
with sound himself and took readings in his area. The dbs. varied with the
temperature of the evening. One evening at 11 p.m. in his home the reading
was 62 73 dbs. with windows open. A reading taken at 6 p.m. when it was
raining was 65 dbs. In another location the reading was 65 dbs. Professor
Breysse said that any reading over 55 dbs should not be considered for
residential. He said his recommendation was that the comprehensive land use
plan be adjusted to the land use zoning we have now which would be high
density.
Mr. Frank Loyal, 16223 49th Avenue South, Tukwila, said it had been
mentioned that property owners would have trouble getting homes financed
if they were built in McMicken Heights. He said that area has probably
the best, most expensive homes that have been built in the area in the
past few years. The area we are discussing should be a beautiful residen-
tial area. Many residential areas are built on the hillside. Trees
damper sound as well as anything. Buildings do not damper sound as well.
He said one speaker tonight said if we build single residences we would
get fewer homes than apartment houses that is the key to what the devel-
oper wants.
Mr. Robert Crane, 5105 So. 163rd Place, Tukwila, said when the Planning
Commission issued the recommendations of the citizen's committee, it is his
opinion they were trying to conform to existing zoning. Back in 1959 and
when this area was zoned the City needed to build a tax base. This Council
is dealing with Tukwila as it is today. We have a large tax base we have
Southcenter. The City no longer needs tax base. We want the kind of a City
that the people who live here want. We now have more people living in
apartments than homes. We do not think that is the kind of a City we want.
It has been mentioned that crime is more prevalent in apartment areas where
there are more people. Young people commit more crime than older people.
More young people live in apartments. In McMicken Heights we are isolated
from the Police Department and it takes longer for them to get to that
area. We want single family residences.
TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING
June 1, 1977
Page 4
DISCUSSION Contd.
McMicken Hts.
Contd.
Mr. Morris, 4420 So. 147th, Tukwila, said he would like to speak about
schools. Apartment houses have more transients and when the people are
transient it is hard for a school to plan a program. There are more people
coming and going. Plans are made for the schools and then the people move
away and more move in so the plans cannot be carried out. It is hard to
meet the needs of all of the people in the classroom. This is noticed
in the Tukwila schools. When there is a great need for occupancy in apart-
ments they let everyone in and there gets to be a lot of children. When
there is not a need for occupants the apartments take people without
children. Schools have been built for the large number of children but
when the apartment changes its policy then the child count goes down and
the schools cannot plan.
Morton Dillingham, 5146 South 168th, Tukwila, said 62 65 dbs of sound
does not amount to much. When the people applaud it is like 70 or so dbs.
Jim McCann, 16045 48th Avenue South, Tukwila, said most people in real
estate are out to make money. It is like the stock market and there are
risks involved. The longer you hold on to the property the higher the
risks involved. He said when he looked for an investment in a home he
looked for an investment in quality. When he sees as area like McMicken
Heights it is beautiful and he does not want to see it spoiled. He said he
was from Maryland where you do not see the green and trees. He said he
wanted a quiet neighborhood with children running around. He wants that
quality for his children. He said the thing that worries him is when the
apartments go in the people are told it will not affect the quality of the
neighborhood. He said he doubted that statement. He has seen apartment
complexes in the East. It causes deterioration of the neighborhood when
apartments go in. Values go down about 10 there is an increase in crime,
vehicular travel is increased, there is an absence of community feeling
in apartments. The people of McMicken Heights are here to tell you that
we feel it should be single family dwellings in that area.
Mr. Dick Goe, 5112 So. 163rd Place, Tukwila, said we have about 65% of the
people living in multiple dwellings. He said he felt a number of things
have come up and he thought we need a binding site plan so when plans such
as presented by Mr. Wilson are proposed they will be put up as promised.
Noise control has been brought up. This City does not have noise control
in any unit. We need sound buffering effects. The highest and best use
of the land is for the health, welfare, and need of the citizens who live
in that area. Mr. Goe said when he was younger he lived in apartments
but got out as soon as he could. He said the freeway has noise, he can
hear it every day. The increase in traffic that will be caused by the
apartments is underestimated. He said he would like to see the entire
hillside single family residential.
Mr. Wilson spoke again saying people are going to be emotional about the
impact of apartments in their area. This is to be expected. The kind of
a development makes all of the difference. His clients are considering
nice apartments. He said he felt it was much too easy to pin crime on
apartment dwellings. He said as far as the need for binding site plans,
his clients would be happy to do that.
Mrs. Carmen Schoen, 4617 So. 160th, Tukwila, said she lives on 160th. If
that area is put into apartments they will be right in her front yard. It
will have an impact on her life style.
Anne Crain, 5105 So. 163rd, Tukwila, said that many people have stereos and
they make a lot of noise.
Mrs. Grace Nelson, 4427 So. 166th, Tukwila, said she had lived here a long
time and had an acre of property. They could have put in apartments, but
they have not. Some who own property in the area have built single resi-
dences for rental property. There was a burglary some time ago and they
found the stolen guns in the apartments nearby. Other rentals have had
problems renting apartments would be the same thing.
Mr. Richard Kersop, Chairman, Tukwila Planning Commission, said he lived
in an area that is noise impacted by the freeway. One of the Planning
Commission members was driven out of his home by the noise. He said if
the people feel as they have expressed, the City will be in the midst
TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING
June 1, 1977
Page 5
DISCUSSION Contd.
McMicken Hts:, of a major law suit that will end up with apartments being built on this
Contd. land.
Dennis Robertson, audience, said he was at the Planning Commission meeting
the night they made their decision on the comprehensive plan. He felt the
comprehensive land use plan was to protect the people and keep the City
out of law suits.
Mike Schoett, 4211 So. 17th, Tukwila, said the purpose of a comprehensive
plan is to determine the best use of property. The property being dis-
cussed tonight could be built into private residences.
Councilman Pesicka said we have heard a lot of things said tonight. It has
been said that we are too emotional. It has been said we should feel
guilty because we do not want apartments in the area of McMicken Heights.
The ratio of apartments in Tukwila is high. We have done our part for the
poor people in the City. The City Council is elected, they represent the
people. When the Tukwila Hill area was considered there were not many
people in the audience. She said she talked to many people and none of
them wanted apartments. They all said the City Council election campaign
had promised they would not put any more property into apartments.
Therefore, the people had felt they did not need to be present.
MOVED BY SAUL, SECONDED BY TRAYNOR, THAT THE PROPERTY BEING CONSIDERED
IN THIS MEETING, AREA TO WEST CITY LIMITS TO I -5 TO I -405 SOUTH REMAIN
YELLOW (LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL) AS RECOMMENDED BY THE CITIZEN'S COMMITTEE.*
Councilman Traynor said it had been his understanding that it was the
people of the City who determine what the City is to look like. I do
not agree that the developers should tell us what the City should look
like. We should take a look at what the people want who live in the area,
and not what the developers want.
*CARRIED.
Council President Hill said there was a small area to be considered that
would be north of I -405, west of I -5, east of the west City limits and to
the north City limits. Councilman Bohrer said the Council had not had the
opportunity to tour this area and he suggested the Council not consider
it until they had looked at it. Council President Hill said this area
would be considered along with the balance of the map at the next meeting
on June 8, 1977.
ADJOURNMENT MOVED BY SAUL, SECONDED BY PESICKA, THAT THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING
9:45 P.M. ADJOURN. CARRIED.
Norma Booher, Recording Secretary