Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994-10-24 Special Minutes7:00 p.m. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Rants called the Special Meeting to order and led the audience in the Pledge of Allegiance. ROLL CALL OFFICIALS CITIZEN'S COMMENTS TUKWILA CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES October 24, 1994 Tukwila City Hall Council Chambers JOE DUFFIE; JOAN HERNANDEZ; STEVE MULLET, Council President; DENNIS ROBERTSON; ALLAN EKBERG; JOYCE CRAFT; DOROTHY De RODAS. JOHN McFARLAND, City Administrator; LINDA COHEN, City Attorney; LUCY LAUTERBACH, Council Analyst; ROSS EARNST, Public Works Director; RON CAMERON, City Engineer; PHIL FRASER, Senior Engineer; DON WILLIAMS, Parks and Recreation Director; ALAN DOERSCHEL, Finance Director; RICK BEELER, DCD DIRECTOR; ROSA KROWS, Records Manager. SPECIAL PRESENTATION Rosa Krows, Records Manager, Tukwila Police Department, introduced new employee Clinton Hibbert, Records Clerk, for the Tukwila Police Department. The Council gave him a warm welcome. Wendy Morgan, 15144 65th Avenue South, #404, stated that the Historical Society will be working on a contract soon (using Grant funds) with the King County Historic Preservation Group to create a video of Warren Wing's "Side Show On The Interurban." Also, one of the work plan goals this coming year is to find space that will protect the archival materials and other belongings of the Historical Society from mildew or other damages. The current location (Tukwila Library) is not adequate. The log house by the river (south of the George Long Building) has been graciously offered by the Mayor as a prospective new location. The cabin will need to be renovated. The Mayor's budget will include a request for funds to renovated the cabin, improve the grounds and address security issues relating to the cabin. She urged the Council to keep these issues in mind as they begin their 1995 Budget discussions. Morgan also informed the Council that she had presented materials to the Mayor relating to the possibility of Special Meeting Minutes October 24, 1994 Page 2 Citizen's Comments (Cont' d) CONSENT AGENDA PUBLIC HEARINGS Public hearing opened Quasijudicial: Request for vacation of Corporate Drive North and Corporate Drive South Proponent establishing an interlocal agreement with King County for the historic preservation of buildings. The Mayor stated that he will review the materials as soon as possible. Mack McDonald, 4246 South 146th, praised the City for the traffic revision on 140th where a three -way stop signal was recently installed. a. b. Approval of Minutes: 10/3/94; 10/10/94 (Sp. Mtg.) Approval of Vouchers: Nos. 74502 through 74709 in the amount of $360,169.80 MOVED BY DUFFIE, SECONDED BY HERNANDEZ, TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA AS SUBMITTED. MOTION CARRIED. Mayor Rants opened the public hearing at 7:20 p.m. Ross Earnst, Public Works, explained that Trust Company of the West (TCW) has petitioned to vacate Corporate Drive North and Corporate Drive South from Andover Park West to approximately 500 feet west. The property abutting both streets is owned entirely by TCW. This street vacation is needed for redevelopment of the property. The existing Corporate Drives are cul -de -sacs, approximately 500 feet in length, that serve office buildings on property zoned C -M Industrial Park with a comprehensive plan designation of "Light Industrial." The rights -of -way are opened and improved with curb and gutter, sidewalk, street lighting, storm drainage, waste and sewer. Roland Jones of Terranomics, representing the ownership (TCW), commented that they are petitioning the two cul -de -sacs be vacated because their plans are to market the property, and develop site plans which would enable the property to be used for retail use. Currently, the structures that are there are vacant office buildings. Being that Minkler Blvd. will be connected through to Southcenter Blvd., retail would be the best use for the property in that location. Special Meeting Minutes October 24, 1994 Page 3 (Public hearing /Street Vacation-Cont'd) Public Hearing closed Mayor Rants closed the public hearing at 7:25 p.m. Li 7 Earnst explained that if the Council moves this issue forward, the applicant can be asked to begin the appraisal process and to prepare for the vacation. The staff currently feels that a recommendation cannot be made on what to do until a site plan is available for the proposed development. At that point, a recommendation would be made to the Council on the vacation and whether to sell the property outright or to make some provisions for other rights -of -way that would be useful for the street system in that specific area. Earnst asked that the request for vacation of Corporate Drive North and Corporate Drive South from Trust Company of the West be forwarded to the next Regular Council; and that the vacation ordinance be prepared for a future discussion. Councilmember Robertson inquired of the City Attorney if the above action would, in any way, predispose a decision on the City's part. The Mayor responded that it should not bind us in any way and it would give the Council more information on the issue. Robertson clarified that the pros and cons have not been debated. Therefore, the ordinance would be prepared for some future time when there would be a debate of the issue and at that time action could be taken.. Councilmember Duffie inquired if it would send the wrong message to the petitioners by preparing an ordinance for review at the next Regular Meeting. He said he doesn't recall the Council ever preparing an ordinance prior to approval of a street vacation. Earnst agreed, and added that a site plan would also be presented along with the draft ordinance for discussion. Earnst also informed the Council that the only time constraint is that a public hearing must be held within 60 days of passage of the resolution. Beyond that, there are no time limits on when the ordinance must be passed. Special Meeting Minutes October 24, 1994 Page 4 (Public hearing/Street Vacation Cont'd) Public hearing opened Legislative: Permanent ban on the sale and discharge of fireworks MOVED BY ROBERTSON, SECONDED BY DUFFIE, TO ASK STAFF TO PREPARE AN ORDINANCE FOR THE REQUEST FOR VACATION OF CORPORATE DRIVE NORTH AND CORPORATE DRIVE SOUTH FROM TRUST COMPANY OF THE WEST, TO BE USED AT SOME FUTURE TIME WHEN THE ISSUE IS DISCUSSED; AND SECONDLY, TO ASK THE APPLICANT TO PREPARE AN APPRAISAL FOR THE STREETS.* Council President Mullet inquired if the applicant can proceed with building without prior Council approval. Earnst responded that the applicant would have to acquire site approval prior to constructing any type of building on the site. Robertson made it very clear that the Council is merely moving the process along; and that they are in no way taking a position on whether to approve the request at this point. *MOTION CARRIED. Mayor Rants opened the pubic hearing at 7:30 p.m. The following citizens sunnort a total ban on fireworks in the City of Tukwila: Art Rosengren, 4022 South 150th Phillip Smith, 13016 37th Avenue South Don Gallacher, 14658 46th Avenue South Those opposing the ban: Sharon Robins, 14028 53rd Avenue South Rita Casey, 3445 South 144th Lucy Lauterbach, Legislative Analyst, briefed the Council on past discussions of this issue. She stated that a unanimous consensus was not reached, and that they wanted citizens' input on whether to ban fireworks or not. Lauterbach told the Council they can schedule a public hearing and continue discussions or defer it to another time. Special Meeting Minutes October 24, 1994 Page 5 Public hearing on fireworks ban (Cont'd) For the record Public hearing closed Public hearing opened Moratorium on filing applications relating to adult entertainment estab. John Hyry, 10602 Fawn Drive NW, Gig Harbor, Washington, informed the Council that his company, Pyrodyne American Corp., Tacoma, Wash., Ph. 922 -0800 (formerly, Red Devil Fireworks), commented that instead of banning fireworks, he would be happy to work with the City in providing safety and educational material to kids and the public in general. Councilmember Mullet read two letters. One letter from Lucas Maltsberger who opposed the ban. Maltsberger stated in his letter that he loves this activity and feel fireworks should be kept as part of the City's Fourth of July tradition. Fireworks have been a tradition, a form of celebration since 1777. The other letter was from Kathleen Duland who supports a total ban on fireworks in the City because of the fire hazard they create; and because some people abuse the privilege. Mayor Rants closed the public hearing at 7:50 p.m. Councilmember Hernandez stated she would like to explore the possibility of a compromise that would allow some type of a safe zone where a public display of fireworks could be held in one concentrated area. Councilmember Ekberg commented he would like to pursue the possibility of placing this issue on the ballot for a vote of the people. He said he was elected by the populace; he will support their appeal. After a very lengthy discussion, it was the consensus of the Council to authorize the Mayor to place an article in the Hazelnut on how to file a referendum; and to encourage citizens to call their council person with input on the fireworks ban. The Council agreed to hold off on making a decision until they've gotten public input. Mayor Rants opened the public hearing at 8:05 p.m. City Attorney Cohen explained that this ordinance merely continues the moratorium for an additional six months on the filing of applications and issuance of licenses relating to adult Special Meeting Minutes \--N 24, 1994 Page 6 Moratorium on adult entertainment (Cont' d) Public hearing closed Ord. #1717 Moratorium on adult entertainment entertainment. The ordinance is designed to renew the moratorium enacted on November 1, 1993 on new adult entertainment establishments wishing to locate in Tukwila, pending adoption of revised adult entertainment zoning and licensing ordinances. Anna Bernhard, 14241 59th Avenue South, recommended that the moratorium be renewed for another six months. She stated that the objectionable operational characteristics related to the operation of adult use establishments are the most serious, and pose the greatest threat to the welfare of the citizens of Tukwila. Mayor Rants closed the public hearing at 8:10 p.m. MOVED BY DUFFIE, SECONDED BY HERNANDEZ, TO ADOPT ORDINANCE NO. 1717 AS READ.* 4 17 `7 MOVED BY DUFFIE, SECONDED BY HERNANDEZ, THAT THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE BE READ BY TITLE ONLY. MOTION CARRIED. City Attorney Cohen read an ordinance of the City Council of the City of Tukwila, Washington, relating to land use and zoning of adult entertainment establishments, and to licensing of adult entertainment establishments; renewing a moratorium on acceptance of applications for, and issuance of, use permits and building permits for adult entertainment establishments; establishing a moratorium on acceptance of application for, and issuance of, business and other licenses for adult entertainment establishments; providing for severability; and establishing an effective date.. Councilmember Robertson commented that until such time as the Comprehensive Plan is completed, it is very appropriate to continue the moratorium on the adult entertainment industry because the activities defined in Section 1A of the ordinance are described as being detrimental to the public health, safety, morals, and general welfare of the citizens of Tukwila and, therefore, such activities must be regulated. Attorney Cohen informed the Council that the paragraph following "Fl" on page two of the ordinance was an addition to the ordinance. Special Meeting Minutes October 24, 1994 Page 7 Moratorium on adult entertainment (Cont' d) Recess 8:15 8:25 Amend Agenda NEW BUSINESS Res. #1309 opposing the Valley General Hosp. levy increase OLD BUSINESS Discussion of Comp Plan Urban Center designation NEW BUSINESS CIP Overview *MOTION CARRIED The Council agreed to move Item "9a" forward on the agenda. MOVED BY DUFFIE, SECONDED BY CRAFT, TO ADOPT RESOLUTION NO. 1309 AS READ.* *MOTION CARRIED. Please refer to Verbatim Transcript (attached). Mayor Rants called the meeting back to order with those present as listed above. MOVED BY DUFFIE, SECONDED BY HERNANDEZ, THAT THE PROPOSED RESOLUTION BE READ BY TITLE ONLY. MOTION CARRIED. City Attorney Cohen read a resolution of the City Council of the City of Tukwila, Washington, opposing Valley Medical Center's proposed hospital district increased levy due to the public safety impacts to the citizens of Tukwila and neighboring communities. Councilmember Hernandez recommended the resolution be amended in the 7th paragraph to delete $.50, and add: 8.5 cents to 58.5 cents. The paragraph would thus read: Whereas. Valley Medical Center (Hosnital District #11 has nronosed to increase its general nronerty tax levy on the November 8. 1994 ballot from 8.5 cents to 58.5 cents /1.000 assessed valuation: and.. Alan Doerschel, Finance Department, explained that the Financial Planning Model and the General Government Capital Improvement Plan (CIP) are two important parts in the City's long range planning. When used in conjunction with the annual City budget, the Capital Special Meeting Minutes October 24, 1994 Page 8 CIP Overview (Copt' d) REPORTS ADJOURNMENT 9:50 p.m. A/ Improvement Plan and the Financial Planning Model are resource documents to help plan directions the City will consider for the future. He said the documents are not permanent fixed plans but are rather guidelines or tools to help reflect future goals and future resources at the time annual budgets are being planned. He reviewed Attachments A, B, C of the CIP. Attachments A B will provide the Council with a good foundation by which to understand the City's financial picture and its relationship to the project funding strategy. Attachment C will provide a macro view of the updated six year project schedule. After a brief discussion, the Council agreed to meet Tuesday, November 1, at 5:30 p.m. at Fire Station #51, to discuss the following issues for possible inclusion in the 1995 Budget: Phasing of Community Center; Sidewalk and Tree Plan Implementation; Unsewered Areas Funding; Airport Opposition; Storm Water Management Plan; Animal Control; Comprehensive Plan Process; and the Residential Street Program. Mayor Rants presented his Third Quarter Activity Reports. He stated that July through September was one of the City's busiest quarters on record. The accomplishments have been many. Of particular note is the high level of service demand associated with development and re- development activity. During the reporting period, steady progress was made on our Comprehensive Land Use Plan review, community center planning and several major infrastructure capital improvements. Rants said he's particularly pleased to have seen the Highway 99 Task Force hold its first meeting and to complete the consultant selection for Tukwila Pond. Dorothy De Rodas reported that the Duwamish Improvement Club held its meeting recently. One of the items discussed was the noticeable lack of police patrol in the area. The membership agreed to schedule a meeting with the Police Chief to discuss patrolling and other policing issues. MOVED BY DUFFIE, SECONDED BY CRAFT, TO O ,TjE S %JC EETING. MOTION CARRIED. nts, Mayor Celia Square, Deputy City Clerk A Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comn Plan Issue Tukwila City Council Special Meeting October 24, 1994 Mayor John Wally Rants: Discussion of Comp Plan issue Urban Center designation. Mr. Beeler? Rick Beeler: If the Council recalls, we discussed the proposed County -wide Planning Policies (CPP) recently. Those policies were the amendments that of the original policies that were passed by the King County Council to implement the Growth Management Act. The CPPs as we call them, anyway, Planning Policies, include refine the original concept of the Urban Center Manufacturing Center that have been the subject of local jurisdictions and regional King County Planning efforts since then. The criteria of the Urban Centers were also modified. Then the policies also added the area activity areas, criteria and re- instituted business parks. Council had some questions at the last meeting about Urban Centers, the criteria, can we opt out if we decide later when we finish our Comprehensive Plan, and the response from Rob Odle from the City of Bellevue who has been intimately involved with not only the original efforts, but the County -wide Planning Policies preparation, indicated to you that yes, we could. This was my understanding all along in the process and we have a Comp Plan that's been prepared to and in the process right now going to the Planning Commission. I thought what I would do tonight are two things: one is to brief you, albeit, very briefly, on the process that is envisioned for the Comprehensive Plan; and, secondly to as your agenda states, to follow -up on have you follow up on some of the comments you had on the Urban Centers so that we can get a better definition of the possible courses objectives and courses of actions that the Council wants to take and can instruct me in our including that into the process that we now have. Briefly, the Planning Commission has completed its public hearing and has taken testimony. There were some 70 people involved in those public hearings and I think there are some 140 exhibits that are being cataloged right now. The Planning Commission, Thursday night, will be looking at their schedule of how they want to proceed, how many meetings they've been meeting almost every Thursday night -and on Thursday, they are going to look at the possibility of meeting on a few Saturdays in hopes to getting the Comprehensive Plan done through them approximately the end of July, excuse me, the end of January. The Planning Commission has alerted us to a couple of things, and it came out in the testimony, that they are concerned about the Urban Center as well as some of you have expressed concern. And, of note, I am very confident that they are gonna be asking us an awful lot of questions about the Urban Center. They may even want more information. And, we anticipate that discussion taking some period of time. The other effort that's about to start is preparation of the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS). The EIS is being scoped right now. We've already received some scoping comments. We hope to have that completed the draft completed at about January or February. That EIS will have the required component of alternatives. We're looking right now at three alternatives, one of which is the Urban Center; second, is a modified Urban Center; and, third is a Non Urban Center alternative. The modified Urban Center may, in fact, be amount to the Planning Commission's recommendation that they will be forwarding on to you. The EIS Planning Commission's recommendation is what will come to you in approximately February or March, depending on when the Planning Commission finishes it and how our printing and tech editing and all that go. So you will have those. You will have the Planning Commission's recommendation, you will also have the EIS, which has a discussion of the alternatives that I just mentioned. That will be coming A Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comn Plan Issue Tukwila City Council Special Meeting October 24, 1994 Mayor John Wally Rants: Discussion of Comp Plan issue Urban Center designation. Mr. Beeler? Rick Beeler: If the Council recalls, we discussed the proposed County -wide Planning Policies (CPP) recently. Those policies were the amendments that of the original policies that were passed by the King County Council to implement the Growth Management Act. The CPPs as we call them, anyway, Planning Policies, include refine the original concept of the Urban Center Manufacturing Center that have been the subject of local jurisdictions and regional King County Planning efforts since then. The criteria of the Urban Centers were also modified. Then the policies also added the area activity areas, criteria and re- instituted business parks. Council had some questions at the last meeting about Urban Centers, the criteria, can we opt out if we decide later when we finish our Comprehensive Plan, and the response from Rob Odle from the City of Bellevue who has been intimately involved with not only the original efforts, but the County -wide Planning Policies preparation, indicated to you that yes, we could. This was my understanding all along in the process and we have a Comp Plan that's been prepared to and in the process right now going to the Planning Commission. I thought what I would do tonight are two things: one is to brief you, albeit, very briefly, on the process that is envisioned for the Comprehensive Plan; and, secondly to as your agenda states, to follow -up on have you follow up on some of the comments you had on the Urban Centers so that we can get a better definition of the possible courses objectives and courses of actions that the Council wants to take and can instruct me in our including that into the process that we now have. Briefly, the Planning Commission has completed its public hearing and has taken testimony. There were some 70 people involved in those public hearings and I think there are some 140 exhibits that are being cataloged right now. The Planning Commission, Thursday night, will be looking at their schedule of how they want to proceed, how many meetings they've been meeting almost every Thursday night -and on Thursday, they are going to look at the possibility of meeting on a few Saturdays in hopes to getting the Comprehensive Plan done through them approximately the end of July, excuse me, the end of January. The Planning Commission has alerted us to a couple of things, and it came out in the testimony, that they are concerned about the Urban Center as well as some of you have expressed concern. And, of note, I am very confident that they are gonna be asking us an awful lot of questions about the Urban Center. They may even want more information. And, we anticipate that discussion taking some period of time. The other effort that's about to start is preparation of the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS). The EIS is being scoped right now. We've already received some scoping comments. We hope to have that completed the draft completed at about January or February. That EIS will have the required component of alternatives. We're looking right now at three alternatives, one of which is the Urban Center; second, is a modified Urban Center; and, third is a Non Urban Center alternative. The modified Urban Center may, in fact, be amount to the Planning Commission's recommendation that they will be forwarding on to you. The EIS Planning Commission's recommendation is what will come to you in approximately February or March, depending on when the Planning Commission finishes it and how our printing and tech editing and all that go. So you will have those. You will have the Planning Commission's recommendation, you will also have the EIS, which has a discussion of the alternatives that I just mentioned. That will be coming Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 2 in to you for your decision process and the process that you will elect. I think it is in December for reviewing the Comprehensive Plan, deliberating and making your final decision. That's it in a nut shell -the process that we see going for the Comp Plan. I haven't defined all of your process because we haven't defined it yet. But that's what we see happening. What I need from you tonight is some further definition of your concerns about the Urban Center. What I can do? I can incorporate some of that into the EIS process, to make sure that some of that is addressed. Or, I want to make sure that I'm on target. What's the objective that you seek and some of the alternatives that you wish us to pursue. Rants: Dennis? i-fl Dennis Robertson: Something's missing here. In if I appear a little upset, I am. Rick, the EIS and all of those things, that's fine. That's what we asked for at the last meeting and it's been discussed several times in other places, is What is a zoning alternative, a Comp Plan and a zone alternative for the CBD where the Urban Center designation is? It doesn't include an Urban Center. If you were to say Urban Centers don't exist. There's no such thing. No designation. No documents. Nothing. What would the staff propose as an alternative now, based upon what Tukwila Tomorrow has done, the business input, and everything else. Where is the strawhorse for zoning and Comp Plan for that area? Right now, all we not an EIS, I mean, you gonna do all that stuff anyway. But what in the devil is a good strawhorse to start talking about, that's not predicated, constrained, controlled, manipulated by the Urban Center constraints. Give us just some good zoning, a strawhorse for that on Comp Plan and zoning. We asked for that last week and got told we could have it. I don't want to talk about the EIS and the other stuff. I know you'll do that. That's part of your job and you do that stuff. You have to do that. But we want something to start with that's a strawhorse that we can start looking at. And that can go to the Planning Commission and everybody else to make sure if we have to hold a public hearing on it, that we have time before we run out of schedule time on this. All that's been debated and discussed in this City in that area so far is a plan based upon the Urban Center constraints. Let's see one that's says we're not gonna bother with that. We're gonna pretend it doesn't exist. Give us the strawhorse to start with. That's am I missing something here? Isn't that what we directed a week ago? Rants: You asked a week ago that we begin to look at alternatives to the Urban Center. I said we would do that. And we are exploring that. As I have talked with Rick and the Planning Commission, the Planning Commission has closed their public hearing, they're going forward with the way they go. There is nothing we're gonna put in front of the Planning Commission at this point, I don't believe. It's going to be up to the Council after they've gotten the Planning Commission's recommendations. Then to look at those issues, and this is one of them. Robertson: I was there at the Planning Commisson when they talked about the Urban Center, and at that point, they wanted an alternative and they were told by staff that it was inappropriate to talk about an Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 2 in to you for your decision process and the process that you will elect. I think it is in December for reviewing the Comprehensive Plan, deliberating and making your final decision. That's it in a nut shell -the process that we see going for the Comp Plan. I haven't defined all of your process because we haven't defined it yet. But that's what we see happening. What I need from you tonight is some further definition of your concerns about the Urban Center. What I can do? I can incorporate some of that into the EIS process, to make sure that some of that is addressed. Or, I want to make sure that I'm on target. What's the objective that you seek and some of the alternatives that you wish us to pursue. Rants: Dennis? i-fl Dennis Robertson: Something's missing here. In if I appear a little upset, I am. Rick, the EIS and all of those things, that's fine. That's what we asked for at the last meeting and it's been discussed several times in other places, is What is a zoning alternative, a Comp Plan and a zone alternative for the CBD where the Urban Center designation is? It doesn't include an Urban Center. If you were to say Urban Centers don't exist. There's no such thing. No designation. No documents. Nothing. What would the staff propose as an alternative now, based upon what Tukwila Tomorrow has done, the business input, and everything else. Where is the strawhorse for zoning and Comp Plan for that area? Right now, all we not an EIS, I mean, you gonna do all that stuff anyway. But what in the devil is a good strawhorse to start talking about, that's not predicated, constrained, controlled, manipulated by the Urban Center constraints. Give us just some good zoning, a strawhorse for that on Comp Plan and zoning. We asked for that last week and got told we could have it. I don't want to talk about the EIS and the other stuff. I know you'll do that. That's part of your job and you do that stuff. You have to do that. But we want something to start with that's a strawhorse that we can start looking at. And that can go to the Planning Commission and everybody else to make sure if we have to hold a public hearing on it, that we have time before we run out of schedule time on this. All that's been debated and discussed in this City in that area so far is a plan based upon the Urban Center constraints. Let's see one that's says we're not gonna bother with that. We're gonna pretend it doesn't exist. Give us the strawhorse to start with. That's am I missing something here? Isn't that what we directed a week ago? Rants: You asked a week ago that we begin to look at alternatives to the Urban Center. I said we would do that. And we are exploring that. As I have talked with Rick and the Planning Commission, the Planning Commission has closed their public hearing, they're going forward with the way they go. There is nothing we're gonna put in front of the Planning Commission at this point, I don't believe. It's going to be up to the Council after they've gotten the Planning Commission's recommendations. Then to look at those issues, and this is one of them. Robertson: I was there at the Planning Commisson when they talked about the Urban Center, and at that point, they wanted an alternative and they were told by staff that it was inappropriate to talk about an Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 3 alternative until after they had their public hearing. Because what they had put out to the public was the document from Tukwila Tomorrow that had an Urban Center. But the Planning Commission wants an alternative to look at. And they were told no, that that wasn't right. I sat there and listen to it. There were several people in the meeting that sat there too. And staff said no, that was Jack Pace. Rants: Ok, alright. John? John McFarland: Wally, in defense of Rick, I was the one that put this on the Agenda. Rick was not at the meeting last Monday night when the Council discussed this issue. Robertson: I'm not mad at Rick. McFarland: No, I'm trying to If you're gonna focus any concern or anger or being upset, you need to do it on me. My understanding was that the Council had intended to discuss the Urban Centers issue and determine what options were available. I felt you wanted to do that sometime as soon as possible, and a date in December was discussed. I thought it would be a good opportunity to somebody had mentioned December and somebody had mentioned let's do it sooner. So I thought it would be a good opportunity tonight to bring Rick here and get a little sharper focus, and he could hear exactly what your concerns were. At the same time, he's already started some research so we could start closing the understanding with respect to what we what you wanted done and what we could do within the bounds of process to deal with this issue. It wasn't my intent to have Rick come here and start discussing alternatives because we are not to that point. Robertson: I don't It's real simple, you guys are our staff too. And if we request that you prepare a strawhorse for us to start looking at -Comp Plan and a zoning map for the CBD -for the area that was enclosed in the Urban Center before -that does not consider any of the Urban Center constraints. Instead, looks at the goals and purposes of the Tukwila Tomorrow and all of the other discussion we've had without being constrained by an Urban Center. Create some kind of a strawhorse that can then be discussed, that can go to the Planning Commission. Cause dammit, they asked for it. It could come to the Council, could be given to everybody else and we could start with it. So we had two ends of an extreme: the Urban Center and something that doesn't consider the Urban Center constraints, doesn't presume what the decision will be, but at least we've got something to talk about. Rants: I'd that's, that is, that is one issue. The other issue, I attended a meeting last Wednesday with the Foster Community Club and several members of Tukwila Tomorrow were there. And they said they would be extremely disappointed if they were not involved in re- examining the data of the Urban Center, because they have second thoughts on it also. Now the Comp Plan, as drafted, is a draft that came from the Tukwila Tomorrow Committee. Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 3 alternative until after they had their public hearing. Because what they had put out to the public was the document from Tukwila Tomorrow that had an Urban Center. But the Planning Commission wants an alternative to look at. And they were told no, that that wasn't right. I sat there and listen to it. There were several people in the meeting that sat there too. And staff said no, that was Jack Pace. Rants: Ok, alright. John? John McFarland: Wally, in defense of Rick, I was the one that put this on the Agenda. Rick was not at the meeting last Monday night when the Council discussed this issue. Robertson: I'm not mad at Rick. McFarland: No, I'm trying to If you're gonna focus any concern or anger or being upset, you need to do it on me. My understanding was that the Council had intended to discuss the Urban Centers issue and determine what options were available. I felt you wanted to do that sometime as soon as possible, and a date in December was discussed. I thought it would be a good opportunity to somebody had mentioned December and somebody had mentioned let's do it sooner. So I thought it would be a good opportunity tonight to bring Rick here and get a little sharper focus, and he could hear exactly what your concerns were. At the same time, he's already started some research so we could start closing the understanding with respect to what we what you wanted done and what we could do within the bounds of process to deal with this issue. It wasn't my intent to have Rick come here and start discussing alternatives because we are not to that point. Robertson: I don't It's real simple, you guys are our staff too. And if we request that you prepare a strawhorse for us to start looking at -Comp Plan and a zoning map for the CBD -for the area that was enclosed in the Urban Center before -that does not consider any of the Urban Center constraints. Instead, looks at the goals and purposes of the Tukwila Tomorrow and all of the other discussion we've had without being constrained by an Urban Center. Create some kind of a strawhorse that can then be discussed, that can go to the Planning Commission. Cause dammit, they asked for it. It could come to the Council, could be given to everybody else and we could start with it. So we had two ends of an extreme: the Urban Center and something that doesn't consider the Urban Center constraints, doesn't presume what the decision will be, but at least we've got something to talk about. Rants: I'd that's, that is, that is one issue. The other issue, I attended a meeting last Wednesday with the Foster Community Club and several members of Tukwila Tomorrow were there. And they said they would be extremely disappointed if they were not involved in re- examining the data of the Urban Center, because they have second thoughts on it also. Now the Comp Plan, as drafted, is a draft that came from the Tukwila Tomorrow Committee. Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 4 Robertson: Yea, what we really got are two things on the table there. One, we've got what the City, the staff and the Council originally proposed that went to the GMPC with the Urban Center designation. We have a slightly different version that Tukwila Tomorrow put together, still an Urban Center one. And what we don't have is something else. If staff or as our staff created this alternative that was Non Urban Center constrained, I can't see any reason why once that's done, that we wouldn't want to put it open to public discussion. Reconvene Tukwila Tomorrow if we wanted to, or have them come to public meeting. But at least we would have something bloody -well to talk about, something on the table, something to look at, so would Planning Commission. Right now, all we've got on the table is what Tukwila Tomorrow put together that was totally constrained by the Urban Center limitations. Let's see something else. Beeler: The Planning Commission has the Purview as you would if you were reviewing the Plan now instead of them of adding another alternative, modifying the one they have or adopting the one they have. So as I maybe I went over a little too quickly. We expect the Planning Commission to ask us some real hard questions because they are asking them now, and that is what's the incentive for being an Urban Center. I think we are gonna end up providing them that alternative that you just spoke of. Robertson: Well then, let's do it a little sooner. Once more, I sat there and listened to them ask for it and they were told no, wait `til after the public hearing occurs and everything else. So this whole thing waited another six or seven weeks. I don't want to wait anymore. You are also our staff and I think the Council see if there's a consensus. I want to ask for consensus is there consensus on the Council to have the staff prepare such an alternative? Steve Mullet: I don't know what the alternative is. Robertson: The alternative is a Comp Plan and zoning layouts for th Mullet: I mean, I don't understand what what totally what the big constraints of the Urban Center. I know what some of them were, but if you take them away, I don't see where some of the big hassles are with the Robertson: Well, there was a whole lot of zoning games played because they had to come up with enough residential housing. They also had to come up with enough employment density. You don't get very high employment density in retail space and in warehouses. So they talked about changing some of the commercial designations in order because the Comp the Urban Center requires a couple things. Obviously, all of the residential density. And also requires a certain employment density. You don't get that density with commercial /retail space. So they changed things around, trying to figure out how to get it in. Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 4 Robertson: Yea, what we really got are two things on the table there. One, we've got what the City, the staff and the Council originally proposed that went to the GMPC with the Urban Center designation. We have a slightly different version that Tukwila Tomorrow put together, still an Urban Center one. And what we don't have is something else. If staff or as our staff created this alternative that was Non Urban Center constrained, I can't see any reason why once that's done, that we wouldn't want to put it open to public discussion. Reconvene Tukwila Tomorrow if we wanted to, or have them come to public meeting. But at least we would have something bloody -well to talk about, something on the table, something to look at, so would Planning Commission. Right now, all we've got on the table is what Tukwila Tomorrow put together that was totally constrained by the Urban Center limitations. Let's see something else. Beeler: The Planning Commission has the Purview as you would if you were reviewing the Plan now instead of them of adding another alternative, modifying the one they have or adopting the one they have. So as I maybe I went over a little too quickly. We expect the Planning Commission to ask us some real hard questions because they are asking them now, and that is what's the incentive for being an Urban Center. I think we are gonna end up providing them that alternative that you just spoke of. Robertson: Well then, let's do it a little sooner. Once more, I sat there and listened to them ask for it and they were told no, wait `til after the public hearing occurs and everything else. So this whole thing waited another six or seven weeks. I don't want to wait anymore. You are also our staff and I think the Council see if there's a consensus. I want to ask for consensus is there consensus on the Council to have the staff prepare such an alternative? Steve Mullet: I don't know what the alternative is. Robertson: The alternative is a Comp Plan and zoning layouts for th Mullet: I mean, I don't understand what what totally what the big constraints of the Urban Center. I know what some of them were, but if you take them away, I don't see where some of the big hassles are with the Robertson: Well, there was a whole lot of zoning games played because they had to come up with enough residential housing. They also had to come up with enough employment density. You don't get very high employment density in retail space and in warehouses. So they talked about changing some of the commercial designations in order because the Comp the Urban Center requires a couple things. Obviously, all of the residential density. And also requires a certain employment density. You don't get that density with commercial /retail space. So they changed things around, trying to figure out how to get it in. Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 5 Mullet: So those are the kinds of things we need to look at taking out. Rants: The thing that I wanted to do last time, when I brought Rob Odle in here, was to discuss the pros and cons. In other words, if you get rid of, if you get rid of the Urban Center, and it's over here, what changes back here for you. Does zoning change? Does parking change? Does there's a multitude of questions -do these change if you don't have Urban Centers? Robertson: That's what I want to see. I want to see the end to this damn thing. Rants: And that is Mr. Arthur, I haven't seen your hand up in so long, I'm going to recognize you. Could you come forward, please? Bill Arthur: My name is Bill Arthur. My address is 18000, Andover Park West. And I'm making my 1994 appearance before the Council. On this Tukwila Tomorrow thing, and there may be others, the Chair might be on the committee, maybe some will not, but my recollection, my thought process with regard to this Urban Center matter, I made a number of motions during the committee meetings. It seemed as though we were predetermined to get an Urban Center designation for Tukwila from staff. This is the way we are going to an Urban Center designation. This is the way it's gonna work. And there were some of us, and I think probably the majority of us, by the end of the Tukwila Tomorrow process, that said, wait a minutes, we really are not sure we want an Urban Center designation. We'd like to keep our options open, but we don't know the pros, we don't know the cons. As the Tukwila Tomorrow report did get finalized (and that's the big red book), we did see the Urban Center designation go from capital "U capital "C" in the report, to little "u little "c" in the report. So that we weren't predetermined to have the Urban Center designation applied and finalized. What it didn't do in that report was take away all the things that are scattered throughout the report that tie to an Urban Center designation for Tukwila. If you look at the various sections of that red book, you'll see that transportation corridors from the east into the CBD; transportation corridors along 99 are all tied to the premise that we're gonna have an Urban Center designation for Tukwila. I think it is likely that if you get an Urban Center or a Non Urban Center scenario portrayed for you, that it may not unwind all the things throughout the Comp Plan that Tukwila Tomorrow did that are tied to this Urban Center designation that's been alluded to here. A lot of the zoning you have throughout other areas in the City would probably be changed if you didn't have an Urban Center designation in the CBD. Residential zonings would change; the Industrial zonings would change -it would change throughout. So it's a whole lot of things that are gonna change if you do not designate the CBD as the Urban Center. Robertson: Why would they change, Bill? Arthur: When we were presented with the Urban Center Scenario, this is where your Urban Center is gonna be, and whether it flops over 405 and straddles it or whether it comes down south of 405 or Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 5 Mullet: So those are the kinds of things we need to look at taking out. Rants: The thing that I wanted to do last time, when I brought Rob Odle in here, was to discuss the pros and cons. In other words, if you get rid of, if you get rid of the Urban Center, and it's over here, what changes back here for you. Does zoning change? Does parking change? Does there's a multitude of questions -do these change if you don't have Urban Centers? Robertson: That's what I want to see. I want to see the end to this damn thing. Rants: And that is Mr. Arthur, I haven't seen your hand up in so long, I'm going to recognize you. Could you come forward, please? Bill Arthur: My name is Bill Arthur. My address is 18000, Andover Park West. And I'm making my 1994 appearance before the Council. On this Tukwila Tomorrow thing, and there may be others, the Chair might be on the committee, maybe some will not, but my recollection, my thought process with regard to this Urban Center matter, I made a number of motions during the committee meetings. It seemed as though we were predetermined to get an Urban Center designation for Tukwila from staff. This is the way we are going to an Urban Center designation. This is the way it's gonna work. And there were some of us, and I think probably the majority of us, by the end of the Tukwila Tomorrow process, that said, wait a minutes, we really are not sure we want an Urban Center designation. We'd like to keep our options open, but we don't know the pros, we don't know the cons. As the Tukwila Tomorrow report did get finalized (and that's the big red book), we did see the Urban Center designation go from capital "U capital "C" in the report, to little "u little "c" in the report. So that we weren't predetermined to have the Urban Center designation applied and finalized. What it didn't do in that report was take away all the things that are scattered throughout the report that tie to an Urban Center designation for Tukwila. If you look at the various sections of that red book, you'll see that transportation corridors from the east into the CBD; transportation corridors along 99 are all tied to the premise that we're gonna have an Urban Center designation for Tukwila. I think it is likely that if you get an Urban Center or a Non Urban Center scenario portrayed for you, that it may not unwind all the things throughout the Comp Plan that Tukwila Tomorrow did that are tied to this Urban Center designation that's been alluded to here. A lot of the zoning you have throughout other areas in the City would probably be changed if you didn't have an Urban Center designation in the CBD. Residential zonings would change; the Industrial zonings would change -it would change throughout. So it's a whole lot of things that are gonna change if you do not designate the CBD as the Urban Center. Robertson: Why would they change, Bill? Arthur: When we were presented with the Urban Center Scenario, this is where your Urban Center is gonna be, and whether it flops over 405 and straddles it or whether it comes down south of 405 or Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 6 straddles the Valley Freeway, the transportation corridors into the CBD are an integral part of that CBD. And those transportation corridors affect every other area of the City. The residential component of the Comp Plan has one thought process when you work with an Urban Center designation. If you take away that Urban Center, It's gonna affect those residential densities elsewhere in the City. Robertson: Is that because you think you have to achieve a certain growth rate of the residential density. Therefore, if you don't have an Urban Center, you have to put it somewhere else. Arthur: I'm not really following that. If you have here is a for instance: If you have an Urban Center designation, then by definition you're going to end up with multifamily -a very high density clustered in that area. If you do not have an Urban Center designation, then you do not have to accept that much population into the City of Tukwila. Robertson: But that wouldn't I don't see how that would impact other areas outside the Urban Center. I think it's independent. Arthur: I don't, because your transportation, your infrastructure, the services, everything that would be required to service that high density population, in this small area, goes away. And so you're mixed for all the other services, all the infrastructure goes away, or at least changes too. So I guess my point is a Non Urban Center scenario isn't just saying we're gonna change the zoning in that CBD. You'll have to look at what it's gonna do, realistically, in the rest of the City. Cause it does change the whole thing. Rants: Thank you, Bill. John? John Welch: Can I say just one thing? Rants: We're gonna have a Tukwila Tomorrow meeting here pretty quick. Welch: John Welch, 11405 SE 196th, Renton. I also served on the Tukwila Tomorrow committee. And my recollection re- enforces Bill's statements. I can't think of anything he said that wasn't the way I recalled it. We took a look at Urban Center as a Tukwila Tomorrow committee and with the transit involved, we were excited about Urban Center. We thought some good things would happen to Tukwila by being nominated as an Urban Center. As we studied the issue, we found out that transit was not at all a promise. We also found that financial benefits that we had thought might be there were not there. We had a decision to make. One, to go along with the Urban Center designation and its entirety and have the density requirements that it mandated. In the desperate attempt to gain that density, we now zone NC machinery residential and did some goofy things like that It didn't seem to work out. We basically said no good thing is gonna happen by being an Urban Center. And so we abandoned our plans to wholly be committed to the Urban Center. We said then, What is best for Tukwila? And what we I Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 6 straddles the Valley Freeway, the transportation corridors into the CBD are an integral part of that CBD. And those transportation corridors affect every other area of the City. The residential component of the Comp Plan has one thought process when you work with an Urban Center designation. If you take away that Urban Center, It's gonna affect those residential densities elsewhere in the City. Robertson: Is that because you think you have to achieve a certain growth rate of the residential density. Therefore, if you don't have an Urban Center, you have to put it somewhere else. Arthur: I'm not really following that. If you have here is a for instance: If you have an Urban Center designation, then by definition you're going to end up with multifamily -a very high density clustered in that area. If you do not have an Urban Center designation, then you do not have to accept that much population into the City of Tukwila. Robertson: But that wouldn't I don't see how that would impact other areas outside the Urban Center. I think it's independent. Arthur: I don't, because your transportation, your infrastructure, the services, everything that would be required to service that high density population, in this small area, goes away. And so you're mixed for all the other services, all the infrastructure goes away, or at least changes too. So I guess my point is a Non Urban Center scenario isn't just saying we're gonna change the zoning in that CBD. You'll have to look at what it's gonna do, realistically, in the rest of the City. Cause it does change the whole thing. Rants: Thank you, Bill. John? John Welch: Can I say just one thing? Rants: We're gonna have a Tukwila Tomorrow meeting here pretty quick. Welch: John Welch, 11405 SE 196th, Renton. I also served on the Tukwila Tomorrow committee. And my recollection re- enforces Bill's statements. I can't think of anything he said that wasn't the way I recalled it. We took a look at Urban Center as a Tukwila Tomorrow committee and with the transit involved, we were excited about Urban Center. We thought some good things would happen to Tukwila by being nominated as an Urban Center. As we studied the issue, we found out that transit was not at all a promise. We also found that financial benefits that we had thought might be there were not there. We had a decision to make. One, to go along with the Urban Center designation and its entirety and have the density requirements that it mandated. In the desperate attempt to gain that density, we now zone NC machinery residential and did some goofy things like that It didn't seem to work out. We basically said no good thing is gonna happen by being an Urban Center. And so we abandoned our plans to wholly be committed to the Urban Center. We said then, What is best for Tukwila? And what we I Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 7 turned out doing is not having, as Dennis suggested, a plan wholly independent of the Urban Center and wholly looking for the benefits of Tukwila. We ended up with some kind of mix. I think it was an attempt to keep one oar in the Urban Center designation and one oar out. And we've ended up with, what I think, is a horrible product. We've got a confined City Center within a mile and a half; we've got a downtown designation that doesn't really fit. I think it would be time well spent to either have a committee, or something look at the Urban Center without having I'm sorry, look at the downtown business district without trying to sit on the fence and produce something that satisfies neither. Thank you. Rants: Thank you, John. I don't think the issue here is anyone trying to keep an Urban Center. We're looking at alternatives to it and trying to find a way, a process to get through with a recommendation for it. I can have staff do it. But, does the Council really feel that staff is the place or that they should go back to Tukwila Tomorrow. That's one of the issues. Mullet: It has to start with staff. Robertson: I think so too. If they did a strawhorse, at least we would then have something to see how big the changes are, and the scope. And then make a decision whether to start the Tukwila Tomorrow Rants: Let me, let me ask, the next step and the problem I see as process. And that is, do we interface it with the Planning Commission or do we let the Planning Commission complete their work on time, we hope on time, in January, and then take address it as a Council? Robertson: Let me ask a legal question. Since the Planning Commission goes forward dealing with the Tukwila Tomorrow plan as it sits today, and they hold their public hearings and they make their changes on it, the Council gets something different, from a different path, this new, Non Urban Center plan, and we go forward with ours, the interesting thing is, I know that the Planning Commission has to hold public hearings on Comp Plan proposals and things. Now, they don't legally have to make a recommendation, but they have to have public hearings on it. If we go forward with something separate, are we gonna have to go back to them for a public hearing on this thing. Cause it sounds to me like it could be significantly different. That's the legal question. The second question, of course, is do we want to tell the Planning Commission we don't care if they waste their time for the next three months. I'm not sure I want to do that. In fact, I'm rather certain I don't want to do that. Beeler: Before Linda responds, if I could interrupt, there is a recent decision from the Growth Management Hearings Board for the City of Tumwater which kind of addresses this point where they struck down the provisions of a Comp Plan which was created, not in a similar fashion, and I think we might be running the final of that decision if we continue on the having a parallel course with what S Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 7 turned out doing is not having, as Dennis suggested, a plan wholly independent of the Urban Center and wholly looking for the benefits of Tukwila. We ended up with some kind of mix. I think it was an attempt to keep one oar in the Urban Center designation and one oar out. And we've ended up with, what I think, is a horrible product. We've got a confined City Center within a mile and a half; we've got a downtown designation that doesn't really fit. I think it would be time well spent to either have a committee, or something look at the Urban Center without having I'm sorry, look at the downtown business district without trying to sit on the fence and produce something that satisfies neither. Thank you. Rants: Thank you, John. I don't think the issue here is anyone trying to keep an Urban Center. We're looking at alternatives to it and trying to find a way, a process to get through with a recommendation for it. I can have staff do it. But, does the Council really feel that staff is the place or that they should go back to Tukwila Tomorrow. That's one of the issues. Mullet: It has to start with staff. Robertson: I think so too. If they did a strawhorse, at least we would then have something to see how big the changes are, and the scope. And then make a decision whether to start the Tukwila Tomorrow Rants: Let me, let me ask, the next step and the problem I see as process. And that is, do we interface it with the Planning Commission or do we let the Planning Commission complete their work on time, we hope on time, in January, and then take address it as a Council? Robertson: Let me ask a legal question. Since the Planning Commission goes forward dealing with the Tukwila Tomorrow plan as it sits today, and they hold their public hearings and they make their changes on it, the Council gets something different, from a different path, this new, Non Urban Center plan, and we go forward with ours, the interesting thing is, I know that the Planning Commission has to hold public hearings on Comp Plan proposals and things. Now, they don't legally have to make a recommendation, but they have to have public hearings on it. If we go forward with something separate, are we gonna have to go back to them for a public hearing on this thing. Cause it sounds to me like it could be significantly different. That's the legal question. The second question, of course, is do we want to tell the Planning Commission we don't care if they waste their time for the next three months. I'm not sure I want to do that. In fact, I'm rather certain I don't want to do that. Beeler: Before Linda responds, if I could interrupt, there is a recent decision from the Growth Management Hearings Board for the City of Tumwater which kind of addresses this point where they struck down the provisions of a Comp Plan which was created, not in a similar fashion, and I think we might be running the final of that decision if we continue on the having a parallel course with what S Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 8 the Planning Commission has done. In other words, the Tumwater decision was a guardian of the process, in a lot of respect of what of the normal process of preparing the Comprehensive Plan. Now, Linda may have some other constraints relative to how the Planning Commission should perform relative to State law for the normal Comp Plan process. Robertson: What I think I heard you say is if we go through with having staff prepare a Non Urban Center plan while the Planning Commission goes ahead with the other one, and then they give us their results, and we follow the other one, what you're saying is that our other one maybe struck down for not being an appropriate process Beeler: Yea, yours would be. I think the Planning Commission's would be sustained. The Robertson: They don't even like it. Beeler: Well, the Planning Commission has the latitude to recommend to you any plan they want that they feel based on the testimony that they have. I think they are gonna be asking us, quite frankly, for a comparison that you asked for in terms of activity area, Urban Center and then Non Urban Center, which is basically status quo, and some of the vision policies overlaid on that. Robertson: I want to make this real clear. They did asked you for it. Beeler: I can't respond to that right now `cause I wasn't there. Rant: Alright, Allan? Allan Ekberg: I'm kind of speaking on behalf of everyone here. We are probably all concerned a little on both sides of the coin, what's going on and how do we approach it and hopefully, we're not gonna be time -bound and schedule- driven on this process, which we could very well be and we may need to take a step back, including the Planning Commission, in looking at an alternative. Rick came up here and talked about the EIS. He said three things: We'll be doing an EIS on the Urban Center, Modified Urban Planning and a Non Urban Center concept, if I'm right. And he mentioned one statement, that he thinks the Planning Commission will be driving toward the Modified Urban Plan concept. That may not even be acceptable to the Council or the Planning Commission themselves. If they are meeting this Thursday, I recommend that the Council meet with them this Thursday and we talk about among ourselves with the Planning Commission members -do we take a step back, disenfranchise ourselves from the Urban Center concept, start looking at something a little different. Anyone wants to take me up on a Thursday meeting? Joan Hernandez: I'm obligated for something else, or I would love to. Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 8 the Planning Commission has done. In other words, the Tumwater decision was a guardian of the process, in a lot of respect of what of the normal process of preparing the Comprehensive Plan. Now, Linda may have some other constraints relative to how the Planning Commission should perform relative to State law for the normal Comp Plan process. Robertson: What I think I heard you say is if we go through with having staff prepare a Non Urban Center plan while the Planning Commission goes ahead with the other one, and then they give us their results, and we follow the other one, what you're saying is that our other one maybe struck down for not being an appropriate process Beeler: Yea, yours would be. I think the Planning Commission's would be sustained. The Robertson: They don't even like it. Beeler: Well, the Planning Commission has the latitude to recommend to you any plan they want that they feel based on the testimony that they have. I think they are gonna be asking us, quite frankly, for a comparison that you asked for in terms of activity area, Urban Center and then Non Urban Center, which is basically status quo, and some of the vision policies overlaid on that. Robertson: I want to make this real clear. They did asked you for it. Beeler: I can't respond to that right now `cause I wasn't there. Rant: Alright, Allan? Allan Ekberg: I'm kind of speaking on behalf of everyone here. We are probably all concerned a little on both sides of the coin, what's going on and how do we approach it and hopefully, we're not gonna be time -bound and schedule- driven on this process, which we could very well be and we may need to take a step back, including the Planning Commission, in looking at an alternative. Rick came up here and talked about the EIS. He said three things: We'll be doing an EIS on the Urban Center, Modified Urban Planning and a Non Urban Center concept, if I'm right. And he mentioned one statement, that he thinks the Planning Commission will be driving toward the Modified Urban Plan concept. That may not even be acceptable to the Council or the Planning Commission themselves. If they are meeting this Thursday, I recommend that the Council meet with them this Thursday and we talk about among ourselves with the Planning Commission members -do we take a step back, disenfranchise ourselves from the Urban Center concept, start looking at something a little different. Anyone wants to take me up on a Thursday meeting? Joan Hernandez: I'm obligated for something else, or I would love to. Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 9 Mullet: I will be in Williams, California on Thursday night. Robertson: I'm willing to go. I guess my big I'm concerned we are running out of time. We're gonna end up with what we had then -an incredibly well organized, well structured, well participated process, and no matter all of that we're gonna end up with a product we can stand or we don like, that we jerry- rigging around, if we continue the way we are going now. Beeler: The other facet of the Tumwater case is that you can't have that kind of a Comp Plan that's inconsistent. It's gotta be thought through, and it's gotta be carefully reasoned, very deliberate process that's gotta be through the document -how you got to where you're choosing to go. Ekberg: I think that we should use that as an example and take a step back now until we fulfill those, whatever requirements there are, to make sure our plan is worthwhile. If we were to move forward now, without a consensus of the Planning Commission with the thoughts of the Council, I'm concerned that the deliverable product we get from the Planning Commission may not meet anyone's needs. Because there's a train in motion here, and we are trying to do a course correction, but we are not playing the same fiddle. And so I think it's becoming more and more important that we start talking to the Planning Commission right now. If what I hear from Dennis is correct and I can't take Dennis' word on it because I wasn't there in that meeting, if the Planning Commission requested another review of the Central Business District without the constraints of the Urban Center, and now we're asking for I'd like to see that in person even If I have to go there and represent the Council. And I don't think it's too late to do a course change as long as we have another public hearing with the Planning Commission and we go through their steps. Hernandez: Weren't we concerned about taking a stand on this until after the RTA made their decision. Rants: That's true. Those words were said I'm not sure we're taking a stand. We're looking at alternatives right now. Not a stand to say it will not be an Urban Center but simply alternatives that can be put into place. I have the feeling that as you were talking on that railroad track, that that switch is back behind me about 10 ft. and I wish I can get back to it to find a way to get in there so I could have put this in the Planning Commission ahead of time. Robertson: But I think a part of the what we need to know is how big are the differences we're talking about; how significant are changes; could we make minor changes to the Tukwila Tomorrow proposal; have them go back and look at it; have that presented to the Planning Commission as an alternative. That's the staff work we wanted done -was to say, hey, if you went back and did that, what would it come out looking like and then let the public process pick it up but takes a while for staff to do. We need to start that now, not later. Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 9 Mullet: I will be in Williams, California on Thursday night. Robertson: I'm willing to go. I guess my big I'm concerned we are running out of time. We're gonna end up with what we had then -an incredibly well organized, well structured, well participated process, and no matter all of that we're gonna end up with a product we can stand or we don like, that we jerry- rigging around, if we continue the way we are going now. Beeler: The other facet of the Tumwater case is that you can't have that kind of a Comp Plan that's inconsistent. It's gotta be thought through, and it's gotta be carefully reasoned, very deliberate process that's gotta be through the document -how you got to where you're choosing to go. Ekberg: I think that we should use that as an example and take a step back now until we fulfill those, whatever requirements there are, to make sure our plan is worthwhile. If we were to move forward now, without a consensus of the Planning Commission with the thoughts of the Council, I'm concerned that the deliverable product we get from the Planning Commission may not meet anyone's needs. Because there's a train in motion here, and we are trying to do a course correction, but we are not playing the same fiddle. And so I think it's becoming more and more important that we start talking to the Planning Commission right now. If what I hear from Dennis is correct and I can't take Dennis' word on it because I wasn't there in that meeting, if the Planning Commission requested another review of the Central Business District without the constraints of the Urban Center, and now we're asking for I'd like to see that in person even If I have to go there and represent the Council. And I don't think it's too late to do a course change as long as we have another public hearing with the Planning Commission and we go through their steps. Hernandez: Weren't we concerned about taking a stand on this until after the RTA made their decision. Rants: That's true. Those words were said I'm not sure we're taking a stand. We're looking at alternatives right now. Not a stand to say it will not be an Urban Center but simply alternatives that can be put into place. I have the feeling that as you were talking on that railroad track, that that switch is back behind me about 10 ft. and I wish I can get back to it to find a way to get in there so I could have put this in the Planning Commission ahead of time. Robertson: But I think a part of the what we need to know is how big are the differences we're talking about; how significant are changes; could we make minor changes to the Tukwila Tomorrow proposal; have them go back and look at it; have that presented to the Planning Commission as an alternative. That's the staff work we wanted done -was to say, hey, if you went back and did that, what would it come out looking like and then let the public process pick it up but takes a while for staff to do. We need to start that now, not later. Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 10 Rants: And we also need to get buy -off from the Planning Commission that they will take that material and look at it. I did not know that they wanted to do it. Tonight is the first time I heard they had wanted to do it. Robertson: Bill, you were in the meeting -they wanted it, right? Arthur: I' m in thorough agreement with what Dennis has said. I sat right there and the Planning Commission (the rest of Bill Arthur's comments are unclear because he spoke from the audience and not in the microphone.) Beeler: We can provide that alternative. That's not a problem. McFarland: Wally, I think that comment was made in context of process, not substance. In talking with Jack Pace, the concern was that what went before the Planning Commission was the recommendation of the Citizens Group and that's what they had to consider. After they had held the public hearing, there were other alternatives that could be explored in other ways. And that's really the purpose of tonight's meeting, is to find out what are the reasonable alternatives by which to explore something other than the Urban Center. That's why I suggested that Rick be here tonight and entertain these discussions. It was not my understanding or intent to bring a strawman before the Council tonight to begin discussing this. We need to get an understanding of the ramifications, the legal ramifications of how to go about this process. And in light of the recent Tumwater decision, it appears (and I haven't read it yet, because it came in this afternoon and I really haven't even had a chance to look at it, nor has Linda) but it appears there's one alternative, and that the alternative of turning this back to the Tukwila Tomorrow group may not be feasible. Robertson: Ok, but it will still start with staff going back and looking at it and saying, ok, what changes do we have to make; how big a deal is this; let's go work through this whole thing; and then we'll have some facts and data about how big a deal we've got. That's an alternative. That's not us voting, us, the Planning Commission, or the Tukwila Tomorrow, or anybody on a choice. Beeler: Then we can take that to the Planning Commission. Rants: We can do that. And I would also like to say that I will be there Thursday night, also. I'd like to get buy -off from the Planning Commission to be open to taking this kind of information. So I think we have a way to go forward at this point. Is everyone comfortable in that? Joyce Craft: Could we just go over one last time what's going to happen, for the record. Rants: I'm going to direct staff to start looking at the differences and alternatives from what an Urban Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 10 Rants: And we also need to get buy -off from the Planning Commission that they will take that material and look at it. I did not know that they wanted to do it. Tonight is the first time I heard they had wanted to do it. Robertson: Bill, you were in the meeting -they wanted it, right? Arthur: I' m in thorough agreement with what Dennis has said. I sat right there and the Planning Commission (the rest of Bill Arthur's comments are unclear because he spoke from the audience and not in the microphone.) Beeler: We can provide that alternative. That's not a problem. McFarland: Wally, I think that comment was made in context of process, not substance. In talking with Jack Pace, the concern was that what went before the Planning Commission was the recommendation of the Citizens Group and that's what they had to consider. After they had held the public hearing, there were other alternatives that could be explored in other ways. And that's really the purpose of tonight's meeting, is to find out what are the reasonable alternatives by which to explore something other than the Urban Center. That's why I suggested that Rick be here tonight and entertain these discussions. It was not my understanding or intent to bring a strawman before the Council tonight to begin discussing this. We need to get an understanding of the ramifications, the legal ramifications of how to go about this process. And in light of the recent Tumwater decision, it appears (and I haven't read it yet, because it came in this afternoon and I really haven't even had a chance to look at it, nor has Linda) but it appears there's one alternative, and that the alternative of turning this back to the Tukwila Tomorrow group may not be feasible. Robertson: Ok, but it will still start with staff going back and looking at it and saying, ok, what changes do we have to make; how big a deal is this; let's go work through this whole thing; and then we'll have some facts and data about how big a deal we've got. That's an alternative. That's not us voting, us, the Planning Commission, or the Tukwila Tomorrow, or anybody on a choice. Beeler: Then we can take that to the Planning Commission. Rants: We can do that. And I would also like to say that I will be there Thursday night, also. I'd like to get buy -off from the Planning Commission to be open to taking this kind of information. So I think we have a way to go forward at this point. Is everyone comfortable in that? Joyce Craft: Could we just go over one last time what's going to happen, for the record. Rants: I'm going to direct staff to start looking at the differences and alternatives from what an Urban Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 11 Ekberg: And we'll meet with the Planning Commission on Thursday to discuss this. END OF VERBATIM oi Center would be if we drop an Urban Center and went straight to what we wanted to see the CBD look like. What the differences would be between the zoning; between the parking regulations; between everything that goes on transportation corridors; how much it takes to change the whole Comp Plan; can we move it enough and twink it enough to make it work the way we think it should be; and then try to go forward with the Planning Commission on that. Ok. Beeler: I think they are meeting at 6:00 p.m. to talk about this. If there is any course correction on that, I'll get back to you. But I recall that's when they are meeting -6:00 8:00 p.m. Rants: We are going to have, in the next year, ladies and gentlemen, many nights with a Comp Plan that is going to be similar to this, I'm afraid. Verbatim Transcript Discussion of Comp Plan Issue October 24, 1994 Page 11 Ekberg: And we'll meet with the Planning Commission on Thursday to discuss this. END OF VERBATIM oi Center would be if we drop an Urban Center and went straight to what we wanted to see the CBD look like. What the differences would be between the zoning; between the parking regulations; between everything that goes on transportation corridors; how much it takes to change the whole Comp Plan; can we move it enough and twink it enough to make it work the way we think it should be; and then try to go forward with the Planning Commission on that. Ok. Beeler: I think they are meeting at 6:00 p.m. to talk about this. If there is any course correction on that, I'll get back to you. But I recall that's when they are meeting -6:00 8:00 p.m. Rants: We are going to have, in the next year, ladies and gentlemen, many nights with a Comp Plan that is going to be similar to this, I'm afraid.